Oscillating Research Expenditure

[flankOmatic]

disclaimer:I am still a rookie with CivIII but I am a veteran of Civ2

I have been playing CivIII for a few weeks now and have found the AI to be much smarter than CivII. When will they ever come out with a network version so we can try I, rather than AI?

There are 4 basic strategies in using science research:

1. Low Research - get cash to hurry and maintain troops and improvements, and buy technology. The big advantage here is that civilizations will always deal with you better when you are militarily more powerful than they are. You can get good prices for technology and civilizations will not want to attack you early on. The disadvantage is that you will always be lagging behind in technology but if you trade right you can keep up being on step behind. Good trading can lead to your Civ being the most advanced if you trade often. Trading often means that you will have the sum of all the other Civs advancements while some other Civs might not. Another negative is that you might be one step behind a Civ in building a wonder. 0-30% is normal.

2. High Research - get a head start on superior forces and wonders, sell of technologies that wont imperil your defense. You're armies will be smaller but more advanced. Expansion will be challenging and you will not be getting the respect of the other powers. You can hold the other powers at bay buy giving them maps and technologies. 50-80% is normal.

3. Variable Rate - you adjust your research to constantly to keep it at a minimum or maximum. So for High Research you may be at 90% for a long time.

4. Oscillating - This is my favorite. My Civ plays the General and the Professor. I start out playing like a General and buying technologies when they are dirt cheap. This gives me cities and more troops and a detente for other Civs. When I have all the technologies of the other Civs and have established 6-8 cities, I switch to being a Professor and go high research. I research till I get some significant military unit (LongBowman, Cavalry, Pikeman etc...), then play General again and use the money to upgrade and mutliply the new military unit, expand my empire and scare off rivals. When my expansion is done (ie war is over, garrisoning is complete), I go back into Professor mode and try to grab the next big leap in technology.

The modes of General and Professor coincide with land expansion/military build up and trade/new wonders.

I haven't tried this out with the higher levels yet. What are your thoughts on the rate of research and also entertainment?

 

[tetley]

Low research is the way to go at the higher levels. You don't even have to mess with Libraries and Universities if you don't want to, except for the culture. Wonders you get by pre-building Palaces, which renders it somewhat irrelevant whether you're first or second to get a tech. On Deity, you get Wonders by military only.

In the late game you probably want to switch to high research and stay there. The biggest reason why: because you can. Might as well.

 

[Arrian]

Speaking from my experiences playing Monarch level games, I tend to start out with minimal science, buying enough tech to maintain something like parity with my neighbors, while trying for the Great Library. Also, this allows me to build up a decent amount of cash for the switch to republic.

Then I access the situation... sometimes I get attacked, which forces me to fight for a while, and sometimes I don't, but I may want to fight. If so, and I've got the GL, science goes to 10% for a bit and it's time to kick some butt. Usually, however, once I attain tech parity through either the GL or trading/buying it, I gravitate toward my natural state, which is to play the professor. I HATE being behind in tech. Besides, once my infrastructure is built and overseas trade opens up, I usually have plenty of money (I beeline for currency and later banking, and build markets & banks, plus Wall Street as soon as possible).
Thus, if I end up fighting in the Middle Ages or later, there is usually no impact on my science rate (which gets adjusted to ensure that I get techs as fast as possible without wasting money - remember to check the slider every time you're 1 turn away from a tech).

I haven't tried Emperor or Diety, but it sounds like those levels get pretty ridiculous, with warmongering being the easiest (only?) way to keep up with the AI.

-Arrian

 

[flankOmatic]

tetley: ya, I can't see right now how to win at the
higher levels by just out culturing or out teching the other
Civs. I have only done this with success on the two lowest levels.

Arrian: I think that you bring up a good point, that there
isnt a standard or simple procedure. You said that you have to assess
the situation. That is so true. Depending on how the game is going, I like to decide
on whether to fight or develop depending on the geography, neighbors, money situation, etc.

Generally if I have driven off my competitors and have a good barrier, mountains, water, I can feel
safe to develop. I like to only attack when I know I have superior numbers or at least tech.

Do you guys ever raise the entertainment rate?

 

[loki]

Originally posted by flankOmatic
disclaimer:I am still a rookie with CivIII but I am a veteran of Civ2

I have been playing CivIII for a few weeks now and have found the AI to be much smarter than CivII. When will they ever come out with a network version so we can try I, rather than AI?

There are 4 basic strategies in using science research:

1. Low Research - get cash to hurry and maintain troops and improvements, and buy technology. The big advantage here is that civilizations will always deal with you better when you are militarily more powerful than they are. You can get good prices for technology and civilizations will not want to attack you early on. The disadvantage is that you will always be lagging behind in technology but if you trade right you can keep up being on step behind. Good trading can lead to your Civ being the most advanced if you trade often. Trading often means that you will have the sum of all the other Civs advancements while some other Civs might not. Another negative is that you might be one step behind a Civ in building a wonder. 0-30% is normal.

2. High Research - get a head start on superior forces and wonders, sell of technologies that wont imperil your defense. You're armies will be smaller but more advanced. Expansion will be challenging and you will not be getting the respect of the other powers. You can hold the other powers at bay buy giving them maps and technologies. 50-80% is normal.

3. Variable Rate - you adjust your research to constantly to keep it at a minimum or maximum. So for High Research you may be at 90% for a long time.

4. Oscillating - This is my favorite. My Civ plays the General and the Professor. I start out playing like a General and buying technologies when they are dirt cheap. This gives me cities and more troops and a detente for other Civs. When I have all the technologies of the other Civs and have established 6-8 cities, I switch to being a Professor and go high research. I research till I get some significant military unit (LongBowman, Cavalry, Pikeman etc...), then play General again and use the money to upgrade and mutliply the new military unit, expand my empire and scare off rivals. When my expansion is done (ie war is over, garrisoning is complete), I go back into Professor mode and try to grab the next big leap in technology.

The modes of General and Professor coincide with land expansion/military build up and trade/new wonders.

I haven't tried this out with the higher levels yet. What are your thoughts on the rate of research and also entertainment?

With the new patch 1.17, there is really now only one way to go : don't bother researching anything.
Wether or not you put a high research rate, the AI trade like mad and will keep up with you regardless : this combined with highly reduced research costs for already known techs makes the whole tech lead strategy completely useless.

loki

 

[donsig]

What is chosen to be researched may be as important as the science expenditure especially from the mid- middle ages onward. I think getting cannon and cavalry is important (for an offensive OR defensive strategy) and tend to climb the tree in that direction. In the next age I shoot for scientific method in order to get theory of evolution - which I use to get to electronics for Hoover Dam. Replaceable parts is a key tech also.

Falling behind in tech is not always so bad. The research 'cost' of a tech declines as more civs learn the tech. It'll still take 4 turns per tech as you try to catch up but this can usually be done with a minimal science rate.

Another thing to do is to micro-manage your science expenditure. When research brings you within one turn of a new tech try lowering your science rate. It can usually be lowered a notch or more while still getting the next tech in one turn. lowering the science rate increases the gold surplus - which can be a substantial amount. just remember to raise the science spending back up next turn!

 

[Evincar]

Originally posted by loki

With the new patch 1.17, there is really now only one way to go : don't bother researching anything.
Wether or not you put a high research rate, the AI trade like mad and will keep up with you regardless : this combined with highly reduced research costs for already known techs makes the whole tech lead strategy completely useless.

loki

Don't you think It's really sad that there's no point in being the tech leader ???

 

[Forthoffer]

Here's an example at Diety level with 1.21f.

I start the game researching all-out toward Polytheism, at 90%. When I'm finally able to start researching it, my research capabilities are still so low it takes 40 turns to get it. So I then reduce my research to 10% and pile up the money.

When I finally get Polytheism, it is still before most of the rest of the AI, and I'm able to trade it for all of their first and second tier techs, though I have to do it the same turn I get it. Then I can use my saved cash to buy most of the other techs.

I finish the Ancient Era on par with the rest of the AI, while usually being the richest civ.

In other Ages, I research toward a single advanced tech, and buy the others later when they are cheap, though I remember once when I was the first to discover Theory of Gravity, switched a city from building Palace to Newton's University, and the turn before I was to build it, I traded it to all the other civs for all their tech.

In summary, oscillation works great at the beginning of Diety games. Later, either buy older tech cheap or research straight for an advanced tech and trade it for lots of tech. It's not hard to mostly keep up with AI tech with Republic or Democracy.