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OSG20 - Bearly In Motion

Discussion in 'Other Civ-Related Games' started by Sullla, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    This forum has been way too quiet lately. Time for a new succession game from the folks at Realms Beyond! :)

    Impossible Difficulty
    Bulrathi
    Must always research gropo techs if available

    Roster

    Sullla
    dathon
    TheArchduke
    (open spot)

    Let's get started...

    2300 (Turn 0): I took the first map the game offered up, because it looked like it had an interesting mix of racial opponents. Psilons, Silicoids, and Meklar as major threats, plus the kitty/avian war to spice things up. We start in the southwest corner of the galaxy:



    There are three stars in range, the two yellows to the west and the red to the southeast. (The other yellow and green are 4 parsecs distant.) Obviously I want to send the colony ship to one of the two yellows, but which one? With the way that MOO processes combat and scouting reports, if I send the colony ship to the southern of the two yellows, we'll be able to see the other planet first and thus know whether to settle or move on. (Since the two yellows are only two parsecs distant, it's also better to move the colony ship over there than wait and see at the starting planet.) So thus I route the colony ship to the southern yellow, one scout to the northern yellow, and the final scout to the red star 3 parsecs distant.

    Whew! Now let's see if that strategizing works! ;)

    2303 (Turn 3): After two turns of building factories, we find that the northern yellow holds Tyr, a size 45 Steppe. Good but not great. The southern yellow is Seidon, a size 85 Terran!



    Excellent news. Let's grow us some bear-boys there. The red star contains Firma, a size 40 Minimal planet. Also a decent result, if not great. At least our initial neighborhood looks pretty welcoming.

    I scrap the initial ship designs and order up some Scout2s. Yellow star analysis suggests that our opponents will be to the north and east, so that's where our initial scouts will go. There are 10 planets currently within six parsecs (including our two colonies), and we have two scouts, so we'll need eight more Scout2s. Ursa can make 5 of them at the moment, which is exactly typical for Impossible difficulty.

    2304 (Turn 4): Five Scout2s produced as expected. I order up the final three for next turn, putting the rest of production into factories. Ursa is at 51 population; I'll send an initial batch of 6 colonists to Seidon and continue trickling more colonists until it hits about size 20-25.

    2305 (Turn 5): Ursa at size 47, sending 2 colonists to Seidon. This will keep going on for a while, so I won't be typing it each turn.

    2307 (Turn 7): The blue star in the east is Drakka, an Ultra-Rich Tundra 25! Small but deadly, to be sure. This will be a major priority if we can get the right Planetology techs.

    2308 (Turn 8): The green star in our neighborhood is another Terran 85 (Exis), and the yellow to the south is a Terran 100 (Uxmai)!!! :eek: Maybe this game will be TOO easy?

    2311 (Turn 11): My goodness! The last two worlds in the northwest are an Arid 65 (Xendalla) and another Tundra 20 Ultra Rich (Herculis)! This is just ridiculous. :crazyeye: Our local neighborhood:



    Both of the Tundra planets are Ultra Rich. Heh. If we were to get nothing else in the landgrab than what's right here, we'd still be in unbelievable shape.

    2320 (Turn 20): And that's it on this very short initial turnset. Ursa is at 77/136, and in another couple of turns it will be time to send population back from Seidon (which is at 51/25 and growing quite nicely). No sign of any other races so far. If we feel that this map is too easy, I can start over again easily. This turnset only took about 20 minutes to play...

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/12069/OSG20-2320.zip

    dathon is up next, with us playing 20 turns each for the first turnset.
     
  2. TheArchduke

    TheArchduke Feeling at home..

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    It looks like a too easy start indeed. If we can grab all the terrans and the ultra-rich tundra planets nearby, which is very likely as yellow start systems are far away we are pretty much set.

    I am okay with not having to fear for our lives that early, but I won´t mind a restart. (Also I will be in Germany for 5 days so I could miss my first turn)
     
  3. StuporMan

    StuporMan Chieftain

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    I would have to vote for a restart. Based on the map, it looks like we can quite easily claim just under 1/4 of the map peacefully. It also looks like the other AI's are clumped together in 2 tight bunches. The only possible runaway AI position is in the far upper right, and it looks like they will need an engine upgrade to even start claiming planets. This also assumes that Psilon or Silicoid end up there, as the rest aren't really runaway candidates. Even then the Silicoids would need to be in one of the central positions to challenge us early on to prevent us from outrunning the other position anyway. I think we can probably safely assume we will win this one with little difficulty.
     
  4. dathon78

    dathon78 Amateur Expert

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    Checking in.

    I agree this map looks pretty easy. There can't be a civ at that yellow NE of our immediate cluster, or Sullla would have seen scouts already. The only way this could turn challenging is if everybody but one is concentrated in that yellow cluster in the far E, which would leave that one with full reign over the northern half of the map.

    I could take 20 this afternoon; after that I'm off until Monday. If I don't hear anything, I'll still take 20; it's been awhile and I could probably use the practice :p

    dathon
     
  5. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    Looks like unanimous consensus on trying a more difficult map. Here we go again!

    2300 (Turn 0): This time we're in the north central part of the galaxy, at 11:00 on the map:



    There's a lot of empty space around us, so likely we won't have too many planets in the early going. Psilons, Klackons, and Humans should keep things interesting as opponents. Now there is only one planet within 3 parsecs of our start, the red immediately to the south. I can only cross my fingers and send off our ship. Now, the bigger question is where to send the two starting scouts. Based on yellow star analysis, I am most concerned about an AI race beginning in one of the yellows to our immediate west. If there is an AI there, those planets will be the first to come under scouting, much more so than those to the south or (especially) the east. Thus I'm sending our two scouts over there, to the two yellows at 4 and 5 parsecs distance.

    Let's hope we get lucky and find a habitable world to the south!

    2303 (Turn 3): JACKPOT!!! :dance:



    We find Vox, a size 105 :eek: Jungle planet! Honestly, this was the very next start that I rolled, honest! Off to a good start already, it seems. Vox will have to get slightly more colonists from Ursa than usual, but that's all to the good long-term. Even better, Vox extends our range to the south, bringing the white and yellow starts nearby into 3-parsec range. The first scouts from Ursa will head down there next turn.

    There are actually 12 planets we can currently reach with fuel tanks (including our inital two again), so we need a total of 10 more Scout2s. Looks like two turn's worth of production out of Ursa. Factory production will be slightly slowed, but those scout blockades are worth their weight in gold! Even better, we need 5 Scout2s down at Vox anyway, so I can gain a turn's worth of movement by RELOCating them there. Always liked that little trick.

    2304 (Turn 4): The southern yellow to the west is a nice planet, size 80 Ocean (Tau Cygni). It's four parsecs away, so hopefully we can reach it before anyone else. I send 5 colonists to Vox this turn to get it started.

    2305 (Turn 5): The other yellow is much less attractive, size 50 Barren (Mobas). Still decent overall. The rest of our Scout2s move out, Ursa back on to factory construction. 3 more colonists to Vox.

    2306 (Turn 6): Already meeting the neighbors, it seems - there is a Darlok scout orbiting the yellow star to the southeast of Vox. Looks like maybe I made the wrong call with sending our initial Scouts to the west instead of the south (?) In any case, our own Scout2 will chase him away when it arrives in three turns, but I'm almost as paranoid as Sirian about letting the AI scout planets. Avoid if at all possible!

    2309 (Turn 9): Lots of scouting reports. We find a Radiated 20 (Rotan) in the northeast, a Tundra 40 (Romulas) in the south, and a Terran 100 (Helos) at the yellow in the southeast - the one that the Darloks already scouted. Well, I know where our first colony ship is heading! ;) Securing that location should be early game objective numero uno.

    Ursa has now finished seeding Vox with population (it should be at about 26 when the last colonists arrive) and is back to full speed factory construction.

    2310 (Turn 10): Scouts find a Steppe 45 (Mu Delphi) in the east. Not a top priority, but still useful if we can get it.

    2311 (Turn 11): More scouting reports. We find a Dead 30 (Klystron) in the northeast, a Rich Dead 40 (Pollus) in the extreme east, and a tiny Desert 20 (Dolz) in the south. That Rich world would be a nice prize, but it's at the very edge of our range. If there is another race at one of those eastern stars (especially Sakkra with their Planetology expertise), we'll probably lose it.

    2312 (Turn 12): Our final scout runs into Klackons in the extreme south! We chase away their scout and find a tiny Rich planet, Inferno 20 (Esper). Here is the updated galaxy map with all scouts reporting in:



    We still have a good start here, although hopefully nothing too game-breaking like the last time. The Inferno planet in the extreme south and the Dead planet that the cursor is pointing to are the Rich worlds. The unclaimed Terran world is the size 100 juicy prize that we want to grab first! Everything else will require increased range tech.

    Now is the part where I click "Next Turn" a bunch of times. :mischief:

    2313 (Turn 13): We chase away a Sakkra scout at Esper, the same Rich world in the south where we just met the Klackons last turn. Clearly they are both in the southwest.

    2315 (Turn 15): This turn we chase away Humans from Pollus, the Rich planet in the far east. So it looks like the apes are over on that side of the map. Maybe we'll be able to beat them to the planet (?) Hopefully we'll have Controlled Dead in our tree, given the abundance of Dead worlds here!

    2320 (Turn 20): And that's it for my turns. No further contacts were made. Ursa is sitting at 77/131 and will very shortly be ready to receive some population from the second planet. Vox is at 53/26 and growing like a weed. I compared this opening to the first game, and the numbers were almost exactly the same after 20 turns. I guess that's not surprising given that I used an identical playstyle...



    Here are my guesses as to where the other races started. The Klackons and Sakkra both clearly started in the southwest cluster, so they're both over there somewhere. The Humans are in the east, at one of the circled yellow stars. I would guess offhand that it's one of the two southern ones, because they probably wouldn't have made contact with us at all if they were at the northern yellow. The Darloks are very likely at one of the purple stars, since I saw their scout very early on. That means that the Psilons are almost certainly in the far southeast, the furthest away from us. (That's either very good or very bad news!) We also know for sure now that there are no AIs in the northwest corner, where we should be able to clean up some additional worlds with luck.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/12069/OSG20-2320s.zip

    Dathon is up - and he should be aware that there are a lot of worlds just outside our current range (7 parsecs), so make sure to have some scouts ready when we research additional range tech! :)
     
  6. dathon78

    dathon78 Amateur Expert

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    Sounds good; unfortunately, too busy to give this the time it needs, so it's going to have to wait until Monday. I won't be offended if I'm bumped down the roster so somebody else can play this weekend.

    dathon
     
  7. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    I don't think we're in such a hurry that we can't wait until Monday. :)
     
  8. dathon78

    dathon78 Amateur Expert

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    Start off by opening construction, planetology, propulsion tech to see what options are available:

    IIT9 or RW 80
    Controlled Barren or Improved Eco
    Range 4

    Pretty good, though I would have traded Barren for +10 of course.

    2321:
    *Range 4 is the most crucial tech, so Vox goes off factories for a turn to pump some RP for an initial bankroll, then will trickle-research
    alongside more factories. And this time, I'm going to wing the trickle without my spreadsheet :p

    *Start Ursa on a Col ship. It's at 142 factories, so that would be 6 turns to finish, and at least 4 more for a col ship then. Considering we can
    build the ship in 6 turns now, I think the 4-turn delay is unacceptable, given Helos' strategic value and size.

    2322:
    *Build 10 scout2's over 2 turns from Vox.

    2328: *5 colonists sent from Vox to Ursa to (hopefully) coincide with factories maxing.

    2329: *RELOC'd ship from Ursa arrives at Vox, routed to Helos.

    IBT: Chase a Psilon (!) unarmed col ship from Mu Delphi, the Steppe in the E. Either they pulled an early alliance with the Darlok's, or they are in the extreme NE.

    2331: *Ursa maxes out, but I guessed wrong on the pop; we're at 99. Starts building a col ship for Tau Cygni. Rng 4 at full bulb now, nudge it forward into the precentages to
    take a shot at landing it.

    2332: *Jackpot! Rng 4 hit @ 1% Sometimes it's better to be lucky AND good ;) Take Rng 6 over stabilizer.
    *Helos founded.
    *Contact with the Xenophobic Technolgist Darloks.

    2333: *Darloks agree to minimal trade; they're at the southern of the purple stars that Sullla guessed, and incredibly, running an OPE :eek: Must be bad terrain down there.
    *Send 30 from Vox to Helos. That's 1/3 the max; I want to stand it up quickly!
    *Research shifted to Improved Eco, Vox quits factories for the moment to give it an initial boost, will go back to factories when Ursa is done with its col ship.
    *Interesting, Darlok's have an alliance with the Humans, but we don't have contact. The apes must be just NW of them, and expanded towards them.

    2335: *Col ship completed from Ursa, Ursa goes on research (nothing else within range!), Vox back to factories.

    IBT: *Chase Klackon scout from the blue S of Helos; it is a size 30 minimal.
    *Contact with the honorable, diplomatic Humans. They have an alliance with the Psilons (so that's where that col ship came from).

    2336: *Ursa back to col ship production, 5 turns, reloc'd to Vox for that minimal. Leftovers continue to grow Improved Eco.

    2338: *Bad terrain indeed. The yellow N of Nazin is a size 35 Barren, the red NW of Nazin is a size 10 Toxic, and the red NE of Nazin is a size 25 radiated.
    *Belatedly start minimal trade with the Humans.

    2339: *Tau Cygni founded
    *Blue star W of Tau Cygni is empty.
    *25 from Vox to seed Tau Cygni.


    Here's a map of the known galaxy:



    Range 6 should probably be our next tech after Improved Eco. We might want to think about some defense for Helos, and maybe some LR defense if we want to make a play for the Steppe to our E.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/52773/osg20_2340.zip

    dathon
     
  9. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    Ooooh, poor Darloks! I actually feel sorry for them. Well, not THAT sorry for them - they are the Darloks, after all. :lol: That's one of the worst starts I've ever seen. The Humans are in the area I predicted as well. If the Psilons are in the northeast, however, we may be able to steal a march on some of the systems in the southeast corner.

    We should probably run another round's worth of scouts out of Vox; when we settle the Minimal planet in the south (Nordia), it's going to bring a lot more systems into scouting range.

    Longer term, I agree that Range 6 would be nice to have. It's too bad we're missing Range 5, as there are two habitable planets just outside our reach at that range! There are also two Barren, one Tundra, and two Dead planets in our neighborhood, so I'd keep emphasizing Planetology a lot and hope to get some kind of improved habitability class in the near future.

    Helos is 6 parsecs from the nearest Human world, with a lot of very hostile planets between us. I think we're safe for the immediate future there. Let's plan on defending that location with bases instead (ie, concentrate on maxing factories and then standing up 5-10 bases ASAP). The Steppe planet (Mu Delphi) may be worth defending with some LR ships; I'd wait for a couple more techs to roll in before designing anything though. I think we have at least 10 turns before the Humans can pull in enough tech to reach it. I actually think the western Desert planet (Dolz) is more likely to come under colonization from the Klackons/Sakkra than Mu Delphi. It's only size 20, however, so somewhat of a lesser priority.

    Overall great turns! Settling and standing up Helos so fast was very well played. I still don't understand that research trickling phenomenon, but it seems to have worked. :D Let's keep it going.

    Sullla
    dathon
    TheArchduke <<< UP NOW
    StuporMan <<< on deck
     
  10. dathon78

    dathon78 Amateur Expert

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    Hmmm, let's see if I can explain the research thing clearly...

    Let's assume that the money that goes into a particular tech is actually going into a bank account. When the account has enough money to buy the tech, that's when the percentages hit and tech becomes available to be popped. Now, every turn, the game looks at the amount of RP in the account and calculates how much 7.5% of it would be. Any deposit to the account that is less than or equal to that 7.5% is tripled. Any additional deposit above 7.5% goes into the account 1-for-1. Practically, what this means is that small deposits to the account are tripled, IF they are about 7% of the total amount in the account. So, if you take 1 turn to drop in a "seed" bankroll, then subsequent small deposits will be tripled. I usually do this from the homeworld when it can generate ~70-80 RP in a single turn (around 70 pop). This allows the second world to grow a tech in a reasonable amount of time and still maintain some factory construction.

    EXAMPLE:
    Let's say we're researching Range 4 on Impossible (the situation above). The tech costs 360 RP. Now, I wanted that planet at Helos, so I didn't "seed" from the homeworld, but let's say I was going to follow my normal gameplan. I would drop 80 RP from Ursa into Range 4, so my Range 4 account now has 80RP in it. Now, 7.5% of 80RP is 6RP. So next turn, Ursa goes back to factories, and Vox puts in 6RP. That 6RP is tripled, for a total contribution of 18RP. So now my total in the account is 98RP. 7.5% of 98RP is 7RP (the number is always truncated). So Vox deposits 7RP, which is tripled, and now my total is 119 (98 + 21). Following this pattern, I'll reach 380RP 8 turns after the initial 80RP investment, and will only have spent 180RP including that initial bankroll. Plus, Vox will be able to use the extra production to keep building factories. I like to wait until the second planet can produce about 20BC natively; that's 2 factories. When I start the "trickle" research, the growth rate of the population will usually keep factory growth consistent at about 1.5-1.8 per turn.

    EXAMPLE:
    Any amount above and beyond 7.5% of the account balance is put in 1 for 1. So let's say I fund the account with 80RP at the beginning like I said, but this time Vox puts in 25RP per turn. So, 7.5% of 80 is 6RP, so the first turn I get (6*3) + 19 = 117RP in the account. Second turn, 7,5% of 117RP is 8, so I get (8*3) + 17 = 158RP, and so on. Using this method, I get to 396 6 turns after the deposit, but I pay 230RP for it.

    And therein lies the genius of the system. You can pick up techs on the cheap, but you pay for it in time. If I needed Range 4 NOW, I could get it in 4 turns out of Ursa, but I would pay the full 360RP for the tech. If I don't, then I can take 1 turn from the homeworld, and a little bit of production from the second world to have an early tech. Yes, it slows the growth on the second world, but my second worlds always get hammered for growth anyway since I use them as seeds for the third-fifth or so worlds. They usually don't get above half-pop permanently until I have several worlds founded, so they don't need more than half their factories. And getting range, +10, or even clean-up early can make a huge impact on my civ's overall growth.

    Very long post, but hopefully that's a little more clear? Here is a little utility I wrote in Excel to help with tech calculations:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/52773/MOO_tech_interest_calc.zip

    You can find a calculator to compute tech costs, the interest path, and how much you need to deposit for a starting "trickle" investment. Now obviously this would become a massive headache if more than 1 tech is involved, so I usually only use this technique for the first couple solo-researched techs. However, knowing the mechanic has helped in the later game; if I want a tech sooner rather than later, I'll take a turn and put all of my empire's research into that tech. More of my subsequent deposits will be tripled, and I'll land the tech faster.

    dathon

    dathon
     
  11. dathon78

    dathon78 Amateur Expert

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    BTW, I apologize for the poorly formatted report; I was pushed for time yesterday too, and didn't have too much to clean up my notes. Figures things would start to get busy around here again as soon as an SG starts :lol:

    As for scouts, IIRC there are some leftovers at Vox, but probably not quite enough.

    dathon
     
  12. jmas

    jmas I Can Has Imperium?

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    Do you-all have a full roster now with the addition of StuporMan? I am feeling interested in playing in one of these games sometime if that would be cool with you all..
     
  13. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    Archduke, it's been almost two days since dathon played with no word. Please give us some kind of update on your status soon or I will have to issue a skip. (I know that some MOO succession games have used extremely casual turn allowances in the past, but I prefer to stick fairly closely to the 24/48 ideal if at all possible.)

    jmas, 5 is a good number for a succession game, so welcome aboard. :)
     
  14. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Sulla, Archduke said he was going to be in Germany or someplace for 5 days on the 26th and may need a skip.
     
  15. Sullla

    Sullla Patrician Roman Dictator

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    Thank you for bringing that to my attention, vmxa. Not sure why I missed that comment right here in the thread. :crazyeye: Let's have StuporMan take over for now, and catch up with TheArchduke on the next go-around.

    Sullla
    dathon
    TheArchduke
    StuporMan <<< UP NOW
    jmas <<< on deck
     
  16. jmas

    jmas I Can Has Imperium?

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    Thank you Sullla (and the others)! A couple of questions while I await StuporMan's completed turns: 1) How many turns should I take--I forget at what point your teams switch from 20 turns to 10 turns?

    2) Do the OSG teams make any use of internal security? I read the discussion page in these forums where vmxa and Zed-F said they did not see it as worthwhile. If that is your experience I am cool with that.. I am just wondering whether you have found rebellions and/or tech stealing by AIs (keeping in mind that according to the Strategy Guide, tech stealing may or may not be identified when it occurs) to be a problem. The Darloks are in this game (if barely :lol: ) so the stakes may be raised a little... also as Bulrathi, we are poor in computer research, so we stand a greater chance of having a computer tech level below that of opponents, which, whenever and with whichever race it occurs, would mean no bonus to our rolls to catch their spies, and a bonus to the spies (if uncaught) to complete their missions.

    3) Wanted to clarify "must research gropo techs", especially in the case of construction where there are nine such techs (six armors and three suits) and there is at least one in each "box" of five tech levels (after the first box) all the way up to level 50. I understand that for any given tech there is only a 50% chance we will be able to research it, but hypothetically, if there were at least one gropo tech we could research in every five-level box up to level 50, would we be compelled to research all of them prior to researching anything else? One never knows...in my last game, with the Mrrshan, I did not have the option of researching any missile techs save one..so if the reverse occurs here (all or almost all construction gropo techs can be researched) it could be interesting..
     
  17. dathon78

    dathon78 Amateur Expert

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    Here's some answers for you jmas:

    1) Sullla said in his first post that first round everybody plays 20 (at least that's how I read the sentence)

    2) There is no "law" against using internal security with us, but I've never found it to be useful. I'd rather put the money into extra computer research spending, which will accomplish the same task and provide useful tech. With their OPE, the Darlok's scope of influence this game will be limited. I'm actually more worried about the diplomatic Humans on that front.

    3) Well, we didn't spell it out, but I would say that a reasonable interpretation of the rules is that when you are presented with a choice of what tech to research in a given field, if a gropo tech is available you must choose it. That doesn't mean that all research suddenly has to be bent on that tech alone, which could be disastrous in some situations. It will probably mean some sub-optimal tech choices, but that's the flavor of this variant :)

    dathon
     
  18. StuporMan

    StuporMan Chieftain

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    Due to the nature of my schedule, I will likely not be able to do my turnset until Monday or Tuesday. The choice to wait, skip, or rearrange the play order is up to you guys.
     
  19. jmas

    jmas I Can Has Imperium?

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    Thank you dathon, sorry, I missed that detail of Sullla's opening post; I see your point on the computer tech, it sounds reasonable to me. The variant gropo rule also seems reasonable although I think our task will be easier if not all of the armors and suits are available for our research..

    Today and tomorrow I have long days. I have more availability Saturday of this week through Wednesday of next week. What do you guys think..does someone want to play, or wait until Saturday for me? (If we wait until Saturday I could play early, probably in the morning.)

    Also, I think I saw in another thread that you guys have a program to take the screenies..mind sharing that again? I have not done that before..
     
  20. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Most are probably using DosBox and it has a capture feature.
     

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