OSG22 - Exemplary cats

sargon0

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OSG22 – Exemplary cats

Well let’s get this next OSG moving. Consensus was Vanilla Mrrshans (to show OSG21 Big Brother’s Shandra how it’s really done) and I will go with Medium since it seems most acceptable and I think Mrrshan diplomacy will be complicated enough to provide a challenge. Title may be hard to live up to.;)

RefSteel & Doom have expressed interest. Can they and any others confirm wish to play and I will draw up roster (or 2 rosters if enough).

Here’s the second map I generated (first one did not include Alkari who were requested):



So no tough Psilon or Humans and no enemy Sakkra but along with hated Alkari we have uneasy Darlok & Bulrathi plus friendly but potentially difficult Meklar & Silicoid. Numerous yellow stars with closest 9 parsecs to south across a void.

Green NW is 3 parsecs and white SE is 2 parsecs away. Green offers better chance of non-hostile and opens up more possibilities so I think should be target for Colony ship. Potential for a few stars here, if sufficient non-hostile.

I will play about 20 turns in a few hours so sign-up and post any observations, if any.
 
I'll play, but put me at the end of the roster and/or skip as needed, as I won't be available until next week.

dathon
 
Okay Dathon, an experienced head is welcome.

OSG22 - Exemplary cats
Galaxy: Medium
Difficulty: Impossible
Race: Mrrshan
Opponents: Silicoid, Alkari, Bulrathi, Darlok, Meklar
Variant rules: None, any win
Exploits prohibited: standard RB list

Roster:
Sargon
RefSteel
Doom
Dathon

I'll play now and post soon.
 
So colony ship to green NW and scout to white SE. Well the green is Iranha Dead 45 and the white is Paladia Minimal 40.:sad: So I turn the colony ship around and settle Paladia in 2308; at least Fierias has plenty of people available to send! Other planets include 2 Barrens (white to west and green to south), north has minimal 45 and jungle 85 (both 5 parsecs) and south has chain of arid 70 poor, desert 45 & desert 40 all within 3 parsecs of each other.:) Meet Silicoid scouts at southern green (in 2306) and southern red so homeworld is yellow to south of our start.

Open construction, planetology & propulsion tech – only IIT9, range 5 (over range 4) and choice of all 3 planetology techs. So Barren for the 2 nearby planets or IT+10 to help the chain of small planets? I pick Improved ECO, of course.;) Best planet is NW jungle 85 and quite a few colony ships needed for available expansion so split tech funding equally between Planetology & Propulsion. Two turns of pumping from Fierias then let Paladia take over until more needed from homeworld. Improved ECO pops in 2329 and I backtrack for Barren over IT+10/20 or more expensive Dead – tricky choice but southern barren under threat from Silicoids and western barren provides expansion in that direction. Range 5 pops in 2330 and I choose Nuclear engines over range 6. Map is now:


New scouts fanning out to northern planets to allow more distant exploration due to range 5 and new scout south from Paladia. Silicoid scout just chased from red south of Paladia (again). You can produce colony ship in 3 turns now (before or after maxing) so happy expanding.

I continued to 2330 to allow chosen tech to mature (and it did pop) but now do 20 turns first round then 10 turns each thereafter.

Roster:
Sargon – just played
RefSteel – UP NOW
Doom – on deck
Dathon

Savegame: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/117018/osg22_2330_SAVE4.GAM.zip
 
Thanks for starting things off for us, Sargon! Looks like we're in for a challenging game. I've got it, and have taken a look, but won't be able to play it until some time tomorrow, probably in the afternoon or evening. In the meantime, I had a couple of questions:
1. Did you make an initial investment in Barren research after Improved Eco hit in 2329? (And do you remember roughly how much, if so?) I assume based on your description that there's nothing invested in IIT9.
2. Did the Silis send an armed fleet to Phyco (the Desert 45 at the white star) or is its lack of scout just an oops? I assume we haven't seen any scouts in the north yet (or from carbon-based lifeforms of any kind).
 
I think the low cost of barren definitely makes it worth getting over dead first. Tech comes earlier, colony ship is cheaper, and +1 tech level for more empire-wide production :)

I guess try to settle the range 5 jungle one in the north first, while keeping the silicoids off "our" SW range. Since the northwards passage might be in more competition with other races?

And it doesn't really matter if silicoids beat us to a non-hostile planet, since we can just storm it with ground troops which they can't hope to match, supported by vastly-superior fighters :) (although early wars can be bad if the AI starts some cheese alliances at the same time, can bring the whole galaxy down on you)

Anyway, I look forward to having lots of new colonies when I take over in 20 turns time :)
 
Well RefSteel:

1. I made no initial investment in Barren since, after spending a lot on Improved ECO and Range 5, I wanted to get more factories on Fierias. The Silicoids have not returned to the Barren since 2306 but it is only 5 from white star NW of their homeworld. You may want to produce a scout to check this out - it may be a rock or they may lack range 5 which would give us more time. With so many colony ships needed, the timing of Barren is tricky so ... I left that one to you!:D No investment in IIT9, as you guessed. It will be nice soon with so many planets to develop but will have to wait for colony ships first. We must not neglect construction as Mrrshan even though poor since, apart from economic gain, it will help our warships when needed.

2. I should have produced a scout for Phyco earlier but I have shuffled between Phyco and Laan (2 parsecs) since Paladia can see Silicoid ships before they reach Laan. So I do not think Phyco has been scouted but it was a risk. No scouts seen in the north at all so the yellow in far north by nebula is surely not a homeworld. Sili scouts to Barren and Laan have been only sightings.

Which planet first is tricky (ie. your choice). I would like the NW jungle 85 especially if good planets beyond but we can scout some of those before settling. I might be tempted to settle SW poor 70 via RELOC from Paladia to cover tech and grow pop but expanding reach in north could be crucial to finding better planets.

Good luck RefSteel, looks like Doom has high expectations of your turns!:lol:
 
Had 5 to take a quick look at the game.

Overall, not a bad position, but I think we've done way too much research in relation to expansion this early. Fierias has only 166 factories in 2330? Paladia has only 4??? I only neglect factory spending that much when I'm building col ships to grab prime, contested real estate. Our growth curve is definitely hurting here.

Researching range 5 over 4 isn't a bad choice, given the planets to the north, but I think Improved Eco over IT10 and/or Barren is definite :smoke: You could argue for either of the others first (IT10 for expansion and quick tech-ladder, vs getting those Barrens in play fast + Silicoids), but Improved Eco is by far the most expensive in that field (1000 RP vs 360 or 160) with the least immediate return. Heck, we could have had both for what Improved Eco cost, plus either IIT9 or most of a col ship!

Here's where I think our priorities should go:
1) Given the proximity of the rocks in the south, we need to colonize those worlds ASAP. Fieras can build a col ship in 4 turns while building 18 more factories.
2) Paladia needs some factories, and can probably build a few while researching Barren. If you take a turn to put ~80 RP from Fieras into Barren, 6-10RP from Paladia will research the tech at a good clip.
3) Our scouting situation is DISMAL. I count 7 new worlds already in scout range, and only 4 extra scouts, with none for when we start expanding.
4) Don't forget about Iranha to the NW; we definitely want to get that world, and just because we haven't seen scouts there, don't let it go too long, or it may get snatched out from under our nose.

dathon
 
Anyway, I look forward to having lots of new colonies when I take over in 20 turns time :)
All right; I'll see what I can do! I'll hopefully get the turns done sometime this afternoon or evening.

@Sargon: Sounds good.
1. No investment in Barren is fine; I just wanted to know if we had "RPs in the Bank" that I needed to protect with continued spending.
2. Okay, I'm learning! So Phyco was neither an oops nor a Sili war fleet but a calculated risk. I'll still send a Scout 1 ASAP just for peace of mind, but at least I get it. I asked because if the 'Coids did take the planet's orbit by force, that would have changed my strategy significantly!

@dathon: I mostly agree with your recommended strategy going forward, but there are a lot of needs ASAP. My first priority is going to be maxing Fieras, and I may end up doing Barren research a little more slowly than you suggest, the faster to meet other needs (like colonizing the worlds on which we can land already).
 
Dathon, glad to see you could add your observations and suggestions.

On my start I agree that 2 expensive techs early are a heavy burden and probably too much, although I think we can start catching up from here on. I like Improved ECO, possibly too much, as some of you may have noticed.;) Of course a late settling and small second planet has slowed growth, and this probably should have warned me not to be over-ambitious with tech wishes – for many colony ships I always favour Improved ECO and northern expansion to jungle 85 was hard to ignore. Thanks for the honest comments.

Good to see your suggestions for next turns. A lot of priorities and so little time – cue RefSteel.:)
 
Rowr! After my prredecessor's thrree decades of exemplarry rrule, I have been appointed to assume the title of Yalara, to rrule over all the Mrrshan people! All hail the new emperror! Reeeooooowrrrrrrr!!!

...herrre's hoping I don't scrrew things up too badly....
Before I played this, I wrote that it was going to be a challenging game, because of our tough luck with the green star going against type and the white star as a mere minimal 40, to say nothing of our hostile neighborhood with Silicoids on our doorstep. We're still suffering from the effects of that start, but the galaxy now looks very different. So, here's the report. Basically, I went in with one plan and set of priorities, then got some scouting reports and changed my mind completely. In the end, I pretty much went all-out on colony ships, which means we've still got some rocky ground ahead, but if we can hold "our" part of the galaxy, we should be in a good position going forward. (Hopefully.)

"Spoiler" tags just because it's long, and I don't want folks to have to scroll past it a million times:
Spoiler :
The good news:
-We now control 6 planets, including Iranha, Laan, Phyco ... and Neptunus - an Arid ARTIFACTS 65(!) - and have two more colships en route. One will reach Mu Delphi, the desert in the southwest corner, in 4 turns; the other is shown here:

It'll hit Iranha in 4 turns, so make sure to give it new orders then. My suggestion is that you send it to the yellow star at the top of the nebula, where my cursor is resting. We just chased a Darlok scout from there (we arrived first, last turn) and it's Rhilus, a Terran 85.
-We not only snagged Neptunus for ourselves, but scouted it before anyone else.

The tech we pulled from the place put it just within range of Fieras!
-We do have Scout 1s already en route to every unexplored star within range which is neither Orion nor an AI colony. If we colonize Rhilus however, we may need more. Note that we also have a ship due to reach the 'Lok star of Reticuli next turn (it wasn't a colony when I sent the Scout 1 out).
-We managed to scout Whynil (now a Darlok colony; the Meklar owned it when my scout arrived) and Rana (a Sili colony) before any bases or fleets could stop us.
-We have minimal trade agreements with the 'Loks and 'Coids, and neutral relations with everybody we've met thus far.

The bad news:
-Our factory situation is still abysmal. Fierias is maxed of course, but Paladia still has only 20 factories (not the end of the world, as I've kept its pop in the mid-teens anyway while it helps feed other colonies, but still...) and none of our other colonies have any! Laan, being poor, has been handling most of our research since being founded, and the others are just too new. (Neptunus should finish its first factory next turn.)
-With the exception of the ART world pull, no new tech came in on my turnset - I soft-pedaled Barren, and though it hit percentages several turns ago, it's being stubborn about coming in. (Now at 16%)
-Our scouting situation remains iffy. There's no scout over Darrian in the far northeast (I judged it far enough away to be safe) and all our current scouts are spoken for (well, except for one who's out of position and the one who'll reach Reticuli next turn). We also have as yet made no attempt to scout the Darlok worlds (all in scouting range) of Tauri or Phantos (well, or Nazin, but come on...) or the now-Meklar colony (formerly 'Lok) of Nyarl.
-The first race to 6 worlds was the Alkari in 2343 ... I think. I didn't see the actual GNN message due to a misclick, but extrapolated what it must have been from other data later in the turnset.
-We had a minimal trade agreement with the Meklar...

...but lost contact when the 'Loks took Whynil, only to reachieve it when the Machines took Nyarl. That was just two turns ago, and I decided to leave the question of whether to ask for trade again up to you; who knows how long they'll keep Nyarl. As you can tell, the Meklar and Darloks have been waging a cold war, but have no official war in place, and so could well become allies at any moment. Gotta love the A.I.

The pretty-good-at-least news:
-We have a (very) small planetary reserve available. All the new worlds have been given little bits of it over the past few turns, but either are about to run out or have run out already; I think Iranha needs some more now, and of course it won't hurt to feed the others early. If you want to get them standing up as quickly as I'd want to, you might want to pump some more from Fierias too.
-We have a Scout 1 at Kailis (the Barren world south of Fierias) that can be sent out immediately, as another is arriving there next turn. I realize he's not in a very useful spot for future scouting though.
-The first set of transports is due at each of our new colonies next turn (it just came out that way). Neptunus is getting 20 (plus another the turn after), and the others are getting smaller first installments, but with semi-decent numbers en route. Our colonies haven't even started standing up yet, but at least they're about to.
-I've opened all fields of research, so you won't have to pay the opening costs; there's a little invested in Nuclear Engines (I dunno ... 50ish?) and of course Barren's up in the percentages, but the rest are just starting out. I chose Deep Space Scanner over ECM I for the intel, and Shield 2 and Hand Lasers over No Alternative. As we've reached 2350, I recommend maintaining at least some research in all fields from now on; we can't afford to stay too far behind in tech for too long.
-Fierias is just starting a new Colship (due in 3) which it hopefully will not build in that form; if Barren doesn't hit in the next couple of turns, you might want to switch to a huge placeholder, as we'll want at least three Barren ships, including at least two more-or-less ASAP (I would have had a prebuild already going for these if we hadn't discovered that Terran...). For that matter, the slider settings at Fierias, Paladia, and Laan are arbitrary, and will probably have to be changed, depending on your plans for your turnset.

Unofficial Scouting Reports:
-As of 2338, the (northern - by their standards) 'Coid colony of Jinga had 31 pop, 46 industry, a missile base, and a Shark cruiser in orbit.
-As of 2340, the 'Coids still hadn't maxed their homeworld! (83 pop, 147 industry, 20 missile bases, and 4 colships in orbit.)
-Paranar, the red star in the nebula, really is in the Nebula (based on the color of the background stars on the combat screen). The Meklar (and maybe 'Loks) may have scouted it before we arrived, but I don't know for sure.
-As of 2349, Ursa (the yellow star in the center of the galaxy) is maxed at 100/200, plus 19 missile bases, three Tooth cruisers, and four colships in orbit.
-We have yet to encounter the Alkari, but they are allied to both the Darloks and Meklar. I've also yet to see Bear ships anywhere but over their homeworld, but they too have a Meklar alliance (for the time being).
-Carnax the Xenophobic Technologist Silicoid, with an Artifact world in his empire, is still last in technology!

The Map:

Homeworlds are lightly circled in their respective colors (that's Ursa at the center of the map). You might also notice one star heavily circled and crossed out in red, as the beginning of the cryptic word, "Orion." Believe it or not, this is an attempt to indicate that the star in question is Orion. I highly recommend visiting the place if you happen to be a Guardian, as I hear the ships on the menu are quite delicious. Notice also that the entire western side of the map appears to have "Reserved: Alkari Colonies Only" written across it in invisible ink. This might be a problem later on. We'll see.
Finally, all the sketchy lines and arrows are my attempt to remind you that a Colony ship is due at Iranha (already ours) in four turns, and will need to be sent on its way. My recommendation is that it grab Rhilus, the yellow star to which the thin arrow is pointing with a question mark. Your call, obviously.
Oh, and see that UR Radiated right in between three AI homeworlds? What a coup that would be if we have radiated in our tree! (Obviously, Inferno+ is a priority anyway, as we have a much more accessible UR right in "our" northeast corner of the galaxy.)

Purrrrr ... it's been twenty years since I took office, and I'm glad I'll at last have a chance to rretire. Shall my legacy be one of prride or of shame? Glorry to be rreveled in or folly to be overrcome? Only my successorrs can decide. I appoint the one named d0om to succeed me. May forrtune and victorry follow the new Yalara for all time! Forr now I must go. I have rruled for two decades ... and have you any idea how long that is in cat yearrs?!
So ends the Chronicle of Emperor Mrrref I, Second Yalara of Fierias. On to the next emperor! Good luck!

The Save: (Still in slot 4 of course.)
 

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Looks good :) I'll play when I get home tonight. Do we have IIT9 yet? If not I think I'll make that a priority to help our colonies get their factories up. Have you done any spying yet? Trading some tech might be beneficial since we lack waste reduction and are poor at construction. Range 7 from artifacts world is very lucky :) If we can secure the north and south then we will have two large warlick empires on opposite sides moving to the middle! Death to the Alkari scum, etc.
 
Expansion looking good, RefSteel, with 4 new planets (including Artifacts with range 7), 2 more under way, barren about to pop and still more land to claim. With the juicy reports from up North I definitely feel you got the right balance.:) I like the write-up too.:lol:

Doom: Seems too early for spying to me since we are still expanding and consolidating our gains. Good idea to prioritise IIT9 and good luck however you decide to play it.:)
 
No IIT9 yet; we've barely restarted research on it, in fact. I agree that it would be worth getting soon, though I'd also choose Terraforming 20 when Barren comes in and give it what priority I could. I haven't done any spying either - our economy can't really afford it, and I think it's still too early to be useful anyway - and recommend against tech trades even if any are possible: RW is a lower priority than it might be since we already have IMP ECO, and I'd like to keep all our current techs out of AI hands as long as possible.

As long as the Meklar either stay friendly or lose contact again, the biggest immediate danger to our empire might be the council vote, depending on how far the Alkari have expanded in the past few turns (and whether the Bulrathi have alliance-aided colonies in the west as well). Our stunted growth curve (Paladia's shrimpiness plus the fact that we couldn't build our third colony until 2337) might keep us safely out of the elections, but with 3 PE 'Coids, possibly-OPE Bears, and a popstorm-based cold war in progress between the Meklar and Darloks, there is some danger that the nominations will pit us against the birds (especially if the election hits later in your turnset, after our planets have had some time to grow up). This would be very bad if the current Alliances are still in effect; the 'Coids should abstain, but with only two votes. So, please keep an eye on this for us!

@sargon: Thanks!

@d0om: I second Sargon's closing sentiment: Good luck, no matter what your eventual strategy may be!
 
I am currently at 2357, silicoids sent in a large and 2 colships and settled Kailis (the barren right next to our homeworld). Barren tech (finally) pops in the same turn!

I am sorely tempted to invade and take it off them while we have the chance. Any objections to an invasion plan? :)

Warning long and boring notes follow :p

Spoiler :
2350: I survey my domain and notice that Paranar and Xendalla are available for colonyships. Barren tech isn't popping so might as well grab these two worlds as soon as possible.

Dial up the meklars and ask them to break their alliance with the bird people, but they refuse. They have Deep Space Scanner and want Imp.Eco. Might be a usefull trade there later if they still lack Eco when they get robotic controls. The darlocks and silicoids aren't interested in our technology (presumably as they plan to steal it later.)

I start research from Fierias on II9, injection this turn then will trickle a bit while sending out colships.

We chase away a darlock scout at Reticuli, its a 85 terran with 4 pop. Its range 7. I am sorely tempted to send in the group troops. Our colonies are all vastly underpopulated though, so its not the right time. Perhaps later. Barren still hasn't popped.

2351: Contact has been broken with Meklar empire!

2352:Alkaris have settled Tao to the north (red star NE of reticuli)they have 2 foxbats so I can't scout it, but pop is only 2. Settling Thilus should being it into range.

Barren still not popped.


2353:factory building is getting properly underway now settlers have arrived, colony ship ready next turn. I re-design it to have a laser in case the alkari send fighters to the east.

Explore Klystron (dead35) Get chased away from the green star south of Klystron by a darlock ship, after first chasing away an alkari scout above its colony there! Have the alkaris got the entire western third?

Settle Mu Delphi, send col ships to Rhilus and Paranar.

Barren still not popped.

2354:chase bulrathi scout from kylstrom.

Barren still not popped.

2355:darlocks chase away a scout with 5 mediums at Tauri

Barren still not popped, IIT9 in %s

2356:Scout Taur, 110 max fertile! That would be a nice world to have.

2357:Silicoids have a large shark and 2 col ships inbound to Kailis (barren). Not much I can do to stop them starting a colony there now, but should be simple enough to take it off their hands once barren pops.

Silicoid advance with both colships and shark, so their colships are armed now (with missiles)

Barren pops! Dead will let us get a few more worlds, but +20 is cheaper and will have a greater effect. + we really want inferno for the ultra rich! +10 is much much cheaper though, and will pay for itself before +20 hits, and with the extra tech level so I pick it first.
 
Unless we can actually defend the planet, I think invading now would be premature. Early conflicts are death to the growth curve, and could have unintended repercussions, like bringing the Meklar down on our heads. I would say hold off for the time being; there will be plenty of time to properly inform the rocks as to the real owners of that world :hammer:

dathon
 
We are the Mrrshan though, should we not be aggressive? ;)

The silicoids are only a 4 system empire, so they will not be much of a threat. Should be very easy to take their worlds off them after we have maxed out our industry on our worlds.
 
I do not think we are ready for action yet. Pop can take the planet but we will need ships to hold it and defend other worlds. The Silicoids may be small with weedy pop but matching their production and their fleet will take time and right now we need to consolidate our gains - the Mrrshans may be good fighters but need a good industrial base like everyone else.

The trouble with the Silicoids holding the planet is they have warships which can scout our worlds which have no defence - I think a mobile defense is advisable. Of course if the Silicoids advance before consolidating Kailis we may be able to snatch it and strand their ships; still may be too risky though. If the Silicoids retreat then we can leave them, for now, with this insignificant planet.
 
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