How do you fix problems when the problems are the behavior of people, and you can't fix the people?
OT Split - One Year On
- Thread starter Silurian
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How do you fix problems when the problems are the behavior of people, and you can't fix the people?
hobbsyoyo
Deity
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You can by removing them after making it clear that certain aspects of their behavior need to change and will not be tolerated. The current system of bans and infractions hasn't worked and at some point you have to draw a line and say enough. What I mean is that instead of all focusing a specific poster as a target for banning, rather the behavior that is causing the issues should not be tolerated and if it continues then the user should go. The rules will apply to everyone, not just the problem poster and people who try and bait the problem poster should also be dealt with.
Oruc
Reactionary
I meant how easy it is to ignore something. Still I think it's amusing we both consider each other nothing but trolls (although you could be saying I was baiting a troll which would be you acknowledging your trollish nature).
hobbsyoyo
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Here here!
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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This whole debate has me completely mystified (which should come as no surprise to anyone, least of all me).
The only other forum I've ever "contributed" to does have moderators, but they never do anything like giving out infractions. All they ever do is try to answer questions that other people can't or won't answer. And, like CFC, everyone there puts up with me very well, as far as I can tell (though I'm a very intermittent poster).
As for who these four problem posters are... who are they? I surely hope I'm not one of them. But you've only got to say "Go!" and I'll go.
I can well guess one of them (I think). But I honestly don't know what the problem is. What is so hard about ignoring someone. It looks, to me, to be the most formidable weapon that a forum member has. And if someone else thinks it worth while responding to a "problem" poster, how is it they are a problem?
As for the OT Split, I don't understand that either. If the majority don't like the Chamber/Tavern divide, then simply stop posting in one or the other (presumbaly the Chamber) and the forum is reunited de facto, isn't it?
Still, ignore me. I'm used to it.
The only other forum I've ever "contributed" to does have moderators, but they never do anything like giving out infractions. All they ever do is try to answer questions that other people can't or won't answer. And, like CFC, everyone there puts up with me very well, as far as I can tell (though I'm a very intermittent poster).
As for who these four problem posters are... who are they? I surely hope I'm not one of them. But you've only got to say "Go!" and I'll go.
I can well guess one of them (I think). But I honestly don't know what the problem is. What is so hard about ignoring someone. It looks, to me, to be the most formidable weapon that a forum member has. And if someone else thinks it worth while responding to a "problem" poster, how is it they are a problem?
As for the OT Split, I don't understand that either. If the majority don't like the Chamber/Tavern divide, then simply stop posting in one or the other (presumbaly the Chamber) and the forum is reunited de facto, isn't it?
Still, ignore me. I'm used to it.
Akka
Moody old mage.
No, lashing out is usually not interesting (though it can certainly be cathartic), but it can often be less disruptive than the reason why the person lost patience.
What I said is that the moderation based on form over content does less to encourage interesting conversation than to allow subtle trolls, not that lashing out is interesting
As it was said before in this very thread, saying "you can just ignore him" is easy, but it doesn't help until EVERYONE do it, and that never happens.
LegionSteve
Motörhead
I am absolutely sure it isn't you Borachio. I'm pretty sure it isn't me either, if only because I don't post enough to annoy anyone that much.
Oruc
Reactionary
Well I don't see how you can punish the person for other peoples reactions, I mean I've made that arguement to mods in the past and they've ignored my objections that I was giving them the reaction they wanted so that poster should've thanked me and not report me.
Edit: Why are we snipping out his name, why beat around the bush? Good lord
Moderator Action: Oruc and Hobbs, the irony is palpable. Stop please. This is supposed to be a constructive conversation.
hobbsyoyo
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That only went down 4 hours ago, which plays into Owen's point.
Earlier I think BJ mentioned that there was mod discussion about what to do with inactive mods. I am curious why that is even a point of discussion; it just seems that if you go inactive for 6+ months you shouldn't keep your modship. Given that there are so few active mods, might it be time for new ones as well? Wouldn't that help with this?
Earlier I think BJ mentioned that there was mod discussion about what to do with inactive mods. I am curious why that is even a point of discussion; it just seems that if you go inactive for 6+ months you shouldn't keep your modship. Given that there are so few active mods, might it be time for new ones as well? Wouldn't that help with this?
NickyJ
Retired Narrator
The problem is, who would the mod's ask to take those moderators' places? Even more important, who would agree? (From what I understand, there have been a few cases where people offered the job turn it down.)
Mods have to be (Revise that: "try to be") civil and not personally involved in forum ****storms, which is hard when most people are getting in on the free-for-alls. That's not to complain about free-for-alls, since I like them, but it makes finding unbiased users who are active in the subforum hard to do.
Mise
isle of lucy
What about a category of moderators (call them Community Moderators or something) who aren't proper moderators but can use mod text to break up bickering? The only problem is that, lacking teeth, the bickerers might just ignore them. But then you can have the proper moderators levy greater sanctions on bickerers who ignore the Community Moderator (say, double the usual points, or a 5 day ban or something).
hobbsyoyo
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I agree it won't be easy finding new ones. But is it not worth trying? Couldn't they ask an active non-OTer to do it and let them lurk here for a while to show them the ropes before they officially go to work busting my balls?
NickyJ
Retired Narrator
It would still be pretty much the same problem: The 'bouncers' (It's Tavern, so it sort of fits.) might be biased with who they aim their mod text at.
People who aren't active in OT probably wouldn't be interested in moderating it.
Silurian
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Mise thats a bit like my suggestion
So gangleri2001 could make a post about no more posts about pokemon in his Catalan thread "Europe is the past".
So gangleri2001 could make a post about no more posts about pokemon in his Catalan thread "Europe is the past".
They learn the ropes by reviewing recent reports. I have seen infractions handed out for posts made before the point giver became a moderator.
azzaman333
meh
There are 2 distinct problems, both irrelevant to the split. The first is that there are a small handful of posters whose presence automatically kills off any interesting discussion. This was a problem before the split, and is still a problem after the split. These posters tend to be good at wrecking the discussion within the parameters of the rules, so they were rarely punished under the old moderation system. "Don't be a jerk" actually gives the moderators greater license to punish these individuals, but they don't seem to have any inclination to do so for whatever reason.
The second, and this is the bigger problem, is that less new members come to OT these days. The release of Civ5 brought an influx of new users to CFC, but OT's numbers have consistently been dropping for a long time now. This issue needs to be fixed too, otherwise regardless of the presence of those who destroy intelligent discussion this place will continue to lose members.
The second, and this is the bigger problem, is that less new members come to OT these days. The release of Civ5 brought an influx of new users to CFC, but OT's numbers have consistently been dropping for a long time now. This issue needs to be fixed too, otherwise regardless of the presence of those who destroy intelligent discussion this place will continue to lose members.
