Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Silurian, Apr 13, 2013.
But you cannot count multi logins
Anyone can post for any reason they want. I'm addressing the people who complain about the low hanging fruit, whilst simultaneously supplying them with the attention that they crave by constantly replying to them.
Possible, but I suspect you're too kind.
Seems likely. And if that's a plural "you" I agree... and I just don't think it's going to happen. But I'd like to be wrong once in my life by *under-estimating* people. This could be it!
Given consistent lengthy-enough temp bans even if they do come back - which I don't take as a given - their presence won't be as disruptive. More more bans, the longer the bans, the less disruptive. They simply won't be able to post and discussions *not* revolving around them can have some time to develop.
IMO simple denial and/or selection bias is more likely. But you may be right.
What happened to the old warning-tempban-permban system?
People can crave all the attention they like while being banned afaik.
@Mise, you can't expect a homogenous response from a diverse crowd. Those guys only need one poster to respond. And that kind always gets a response.
I agree that steadily increasing temp ban lengths are the best solution in the short term (I think I posited something like this before, I had a spreadsheet and everything!), but they won't solve anything in the long run. We know from experience that they always come back after temp bans.
There was a points system has that gone or was it just Mise's idea.
I'd bet this happens far less than is suspected.
Heh, you mean the hypocrits. Fair enough.
Well, not always; and sometimes they didnt come back for months if not even years.
The permanent points system (8 pts = one week ban, 15 pts = two week ban, 21 pts = permanent ban) is still in place, as is being used.
The older 'road to permaban' was lengthier, with bans graduating from 1 week to 2 weeks, then a month, two months, four months and permanent ban.
Infractions in the Tavern and Chamber are now more likely to carry a temp ban than before the split, where, apart from in exceptional circumstances, bans weren't handed out until the 8 pt threshold was hit.
You know what? It occurs to me that moderators and probably the OT as well would have been much better served if you guys just went to a system where if you got an infraction (not a warning but an actual infraction) it carried a mandatory 1 month ban. During that month you could attempt to appeal it, and if the poster made their argument they simply came off the ban earlier.
Just tell users they would get 1 warning a month (yellow card). Another transgression during that month equates to a 1 month ban (red card). No need with keeping 'points' or multiple warnings, or being constantly frustrated by posters who continually break the rules. Simple for the mods to implement, simple for the users to grasp. Fair all around.
I'd endorse that.
But then there's a significant cost to that system. One who makes typically decent contributions to the forum may receive an infraction for an incidental slip up (maybe in response to someone like Neomega) and then be the subject of a rather brutal punishment in which case that user may refrain from the forums altogether once the ban has expired.
Pretty much, if I get banned from here even once I doubt I'll come back. It's like those guys who get banned from Skyrim Nexus, I mean really? Why would you want to go back?
Why exactly? For starters, it's simple. Purposefully so. This takes pressue off the mods to actually do what they need to: moderate. It's also easy for the average user to understand, harsh enough to actually get someones attention instead of a measly 3 days ban.
Plus it doesnt have to be written in stone the way I suggested, but could be manipulated in several different directions while still retaining its simplicity. 1 warning prior to the infraction ban too little? Bump it to 3 a month. 1 month too long of a ban? Make it 2 weeks instead.
You could even assign different varibles between the Tavern and Chamber. less warnings and longer bans for the Chamber or vice versa for the Tavern.
The importance is whatever levels are assigned to the varibles, then keep to them for all users.
What you suggest is no different under the current system. You do realize in that same scenario, a person on the Permanent Points system could potentially be perma-banned for the same incidental slip-up. If you think a 1 month ban is 'brutal' then how much more so is a permanent one?
As to them 'refraining altogether once the ban was expired' didnt we just receive testimony as follows?
Plus there is always the option of thinking if 1 month is too brutal, then mitigate it to 2 weeks instead. The overall point is simply this: current moderation system is seemingly too burdensome for mods to be effective, and too forgiving of offenders initially to really influence them to change their ways prior to a perma-ban.
The real problem of moderation is the issue of perception. Where the line to be crossed can vary quite a bit from mod to mod, and therein lies the problem of inconsistent moderation. You might not get anything from one moderator for calling X a knucklehead (hell the mod may agree with you on it), but a different moderator might indeed give you points for the insult - and in some cases those points could even be permanent. It's almost like having police along the highway enforcing different speed limits on the same stretch of road. That's pretty frustrating.
Emotional investment in the forum over a long period of time?
People say this kind of stuff all the time....and then the come right back. Rather like some media type saying they'll move out of the country based on whomever wins the Presidential election. They never act on it.
But really, if a single ban would run you off, what's keeping you here right now?
I got an infraction for posting a picture of roadkill in some thread and another one for a Onion link with profanity or something like that. That's like 5 months right there.
I haven't been banned for a month or more.
Really, all your infractions add up even if you've been here for 10 years but rarely get infractions? Are you sure?
No, that sounds like an inititial warning, and then maybe a ban for 1 month under my original suggestion (thats assuming they were within a month of each other - if not, then that's just two warnings).
Obviously, your objection to my proposal hinges upon exaggeration.
That caveat wasnt part of your initial comment regarding bans. You merely said 'if you got banned....'. Your moving the goalpost there seems to imply that you have been...and that you came back.
If you're on the Permanent Points Program they never go away. Hence the 'Permanent' part....
And on a lesser scale, check your profile. All the infractions you've ever gotten will be listed under the infractions tab.
I don't have any
I like how my best posts are collected in one place.
Separate names with a comma.