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[GS] Ottomans Livestream Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Deggial

    Deggial Chieftain

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    I think the RNG works fine. It’s just that - even with those fast victories - we don’t play enough games to really see an evened out leader appearance.

    A “negative selection” would be a useful addition to exclude a leader you got tired to see.

    Another option migth be a “guided RNG”, where the game keeps track of the civs “chosen” in previous games and lowers the probability of those that appeared more frequent than others.
     
    nzcamel, Zaarin, Julia97 and 2 others like this.
  2. borad

    borad Chieftain

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    I hover over items and wait for the tool tip.
     
    Aussie_Lurker, nzcamel and Kimiimaro like this.
  3. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

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    Even when playing the game yourself that can be a recipe for disappointment. :mischief:
     
  4. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing Chieftain

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    I play Civ on a laptop and watching these streams I realized how much I'm missing out on. Turning the graphic options enough to see the animated leaders slows down the game significantly. The unit animations seem better or smoother in the streams as well. That part could be my imagination.

    Pete Murry gets a lot more information into the streams but I feel like I somehow have seen less then with Sarah. I prefer to be less spoiled about whats going to happen in the game - although I read these forums so I guess I'm inconsistent. I don't think Pete took any marketing classes. He just goes ahead and tells the customers how to get around the Ottoman malus they just put in.
     
  5. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    For me, it usually occurs when I have a unit or city selected. Deselect for tooltip responsiveness.

    Also, I have discovered that the map infinite scrolling 'bug' happened when something is selected that has a description that scrolls off the bottom. Getting out of that enables continuing the game without restarting it.
     
  6. bbbt

    bbbt Warlord

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    A leader 'ban' list has been asked for for a while (in 5 as well), I think even more so for multiplayer. There was a mod that cpcou do in 5, not sure about 6.
     
  7. Sostratus

    Sostratus Chieftain

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    Well, the Janissary (and the Huzsar) needed resources to make and upgrade, so I'm sure other uniques will get them added where necessary. On the plus side, the units that do not replace anything, probably won't need resources.
    I am like 51% sure that the reason we can't get muskets into redcoats etc is because the upgrade table was coded universally and they never made variants/added conditional relationships so civs with special units could upgrade into them. (Since it's one step more complex than class swordsmen upgrade into class muskets)

    Domrey are statistically trebuchets - they sit right between a catapult and a bombard. 220 iirc is based on the siege unit production premium over regular units. Most medieval units cost 180 or so. But... siege has no production card and I don't think catapults are that huge in the world of rams. Now if we had base unit trebuchets then a mobile trebby would be a hell raiser.
     
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  8. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    The lack of a production card is certainly a big hit.
     
  9. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

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    I'm incredibly slow sometimes, but this finally twigged me to one reason the Deity AI in Civ 6 doesn't field armies much larger than the player can assemble.

    The player can build their army using the relevant cards. The AI, I presume, is much less efficient at only building units when running the proper card. The Deity AI's 80% production therefore is largely offset by what I assume is a relatively inefficient use of policy cards.
     
  10. Sostratus

    Sostratus Chieftain

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    I've always supected this was a crucial part of them being so easy to overtake.
    I believe @Victoria had once illuminated their behavior- essentially they have such growth focus that they are set to slot all the +amenities and +housing cards so they don't have issues. Which we know is a poor choice at high level, and it means the players who are actually using +production, +district building yield, etc, get MASSIVE advantages over the computer basically as soon as we hit first tier government.
    You don't even need an AI overhaul to fix this, just create a dozen policy builds for the different strategy types and tell the AI to slot those. It's a static enough problem that programmed builds would actually be close to optimal.
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There is sadly a variety of behaviours, for example their spies never kill envoys.
    Slotting cards is a big one although envoy killing is not minor, it is later.
    The real killer is the lack of chop.... so those that chop early catch up faster. Those that do not Chop catch up later as the AI gets fat and cardless. Those that war find cities with districts and plenty of chop left.
    I cannot remember when I hired Victor last... The AI has a promoted victor early, probably as a defence against sieges.
    One I was pondering over tonight was a comment someone made today that the AI runaways had been stopped like that was a good thing.... I was pondering on how they stopped it and then drifted on from there to how much else they hobble.... my pet peeve being walking between 2 walled cities and being shot at by only one.
    One feels the dll is required to remove the financially viable code
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
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  12. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I'd rather it not be a 'static' auto-slotting. I'd prefer the ai be able to make choices. Maybe with civs favoring certain policies, giving them a +% chance to slot those cards.

    I use +amenity and +housing cards. :twitch:
     
  13. Sostratus

    Sostratus Chieftain

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    Everyone would prefer an AI that could competently evaluate its policy cards and also use flavor, but that's hard. If they could do that they'd already have it. AI Card choices happen to be invisible to the player, and are a massive source of power for an empire. Hence, the shortcut to improve how they play (at least for those worried about how bad they are on 6,7,8) is to just tell them what the good choices are. A computer slotting to have 2 extra pop in its cities vs a slotting for +unit production, rationalism, etc, is a massive difference in effectiveness. Plus when our traders report Mali slotted Free market we wouldn't really be surprised because it fits.
     
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  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    nice to see you back... not sure why that avatar is white not red though.
    They do appear to do precisely what you say... there is a weighting system and in the log you can see card preferences and the decision to slot does not always appear to be the highest.
    Not spent enough time on it, would rather be playing but I think I will revisit one the gathering storm has passed.
    If someone had a game they desperately wanted to know I could tell them if they linked my the attached logs, so used to looking at them now it is second nature...
    What governors they slot, what cards, what governments, their stats, envoys, spies... lots is there
     
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  15. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    The AI also likes to mass catapults, even against knights.

    The idea is to survive until the AI gets mathematics, and are allowed to build catapults, at which point you've won the game.
     
  16. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Engineering.
     
  17. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Well, the AI likes to do anything it *can* do. It doesn't care if it *should* do it. It can build Petra, so it will do it on the one desert tile. It can build catapults, so until it isn't the most high-tech unit available, it continues to do so.

    I really think tech trees like those in Civ V are an outmoded concept in 4X games. It leads down paths where a civ will arrive at one unit well before others, so combined arms is not feasible. I don't really think it's that great to field assault forces consisting entirely of either knights or catapults.
     
  18. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Oops. I was thinking of earlier versions of civ. Yes, engineering.
     

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