Over expansion... problems and how you know?

[pillowmaker911]

I'm a little iffy on the whole "over-expansion" thing.

How do you know when to expand (since the game never really suggests at proper times) and when you will be stretched too thin.
I also would like to know what problems occur (other than a crashed economy) and how to balance yourself back out when it happens (without abandoning cities unless absolutely neccessary).

I ask since I seem to usually get to the same point (approaching medieval era time pierod) and my economy crashes. I usually try to expand more if possible at this point either by building where possible or taking cities from close neighbors that have a lot of resources available (usually the first option) and I'm guessing it's because I'm expanding too quickly? I generally have 3-5 cities at this point all having 5+ population. To keep myself afloat I usually have to build more cottages than my cities can handle since I sometimes need farms for food or other things for resources (I'm pretty good at maximizing my resources) or having my research way down around 50% and I fall behind, and I can barely afford enough of a military to defend my cities with a mere 2 units apiece. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


P.S. I'm a beginner at Civ4 (I have BTS), so I usually am playing Cheiftain(ish) level in case that makes a difference.

 

[Matthew5117]

If you are a beginner, I recommend you to read these guides:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=258697

And the war academy:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Your economy has crashed when you have 100% on the wealth slider (and 0% on research) and you are still losing money each turn. Its hard to believe you have done this with 3-5 cities on chieftain in the medieval era. Are you sure your problems won't be solved by just dropping the science slider some more - anything over 30% is still a decent working economy in no danger of crashing.

If you completely run out of gold and your slider is down to 0% the game will put your units on strike and start deleting some of them - which you never want to happen. Also it can be hard to recover when you are close to this unless you have teched at least pottery and writing - since you need science to research techs to improve your economy.

By the time you get to the medieval era though your economy should easily be supporting 7-8 cities of size 8-15. Switching your civics to heriditary rule through the monarchy tech will help you grow big cities.

 

[slobberinbear]

@ OP:

Build cottages and make sure your citizens are working them. Floodplains and riverside grassland is best for this.

Learn Code of Laws and Currency. Build Courthouses in your distant cities and Marketplaces in your cottage cities.

Settle your cities so that they get as many resources as possible while having sufficient food to work all of the tiles.

Grow your cities larger by hooking up happiness and health resources and using more advanced civics. Larger cities are more productive and make more money.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Your economy has crashed when you have 100% on the wealth slider (and 0% on research) and you are still losing money each turn. Its hard to believe you have done this with 3-5 cities on chieftain in the medieval era. Are you sure your problems won't be solved by just dropping the science slider some more - anything over 30% is still a decent working economy in no danger of crashing.

If you completely run out of gold and your slider is down to 0% the game will put your units on strike and start deleting some of them - which you never want to happen. Also it can be hard to recover when you are close to this unless you have teched at least pottery and writing - since you need science to research techs to improve your economy.

By the time you get to the medieval era though your economy should easily be supporting 7-8 cities of size 8-15. Switching your civics to heriditary rule through the monarchy tech will help you grow big cities.

Just be sure you get writing before you get to 0%, or it can be hell .

Although with enough cap and cottages you'll pull out of anything, early great people are really your method of doing it QUICKLY and getting to techs that make the cottages and other tiles more useful.

I have a lot of trouble if I get to 10 cities too soon on immortal. 8 near 1 AD is easier (exception, gold or other power commerce tiles) and man if you can't block for backfill with 8, you've got some kind of strange map. Although in my playback game through the immortal universities I wound up getting 16 without war in the GK one.

Basically, stay out of strike, and make sure you have pottery/writing and you'll be fine. Scientists can give marginal (or good, should you have stone for pyramids) research and will net you great people to kick your tech back up. Of course on levels below monarch you might not even fall behind, so what techs to choose depends on how fast/slow the AI is and what can be traded.

 

[bippukt]

If your economy is crashing AFTER you are reaching the medieval age, then you are doing something seriously wrong. Especially at the chieftian level itself.

Even with minimal cottaging in my latest game (coz shaka and toku were my only neighbours, so I wanted max pop and hammers for rushing military if necessary), my economy didn't crash.

I think you should go through the War Academy here at the CFC. It will really help

 

[pillowmaker911]

If you are a beginner, I recommend you to read these guides:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=258697

And the war academy:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/

Thanks, helped a lot... made a lot of stupid mistakes.

 

[Gumbolt]

Have another game and post a save around 1000bc.

You are not on a difficult level really. In fact you are at an advantage to the Ai probably.

My tips for the start. Bronze working is a key tech.

Generally maybe one land tech before this then beeline to BW. This opens up slavery, copper and chopping.

Slavery is great for speeding up slow builds that take over 6-20 turns.

Chopping of forest is helpful to speed up worker/settler production early on.

beyond that cottages/ codes of law for court houses and currency for the extra trade routes.

A strong opening is using pyramids and switching to representation for the extra science that specialists produce.

Dont forget to set up a great peoples farm on each game. These are key in civ4.

Have fun playing.

 

[MkLh]

I'm a little iffy on the whole "over-expansion" thing.

How do you know when to expand (since the game never really suggests at proper times) and when you will be stretched too thin.

One basic technique for timing expanding:

1. Build a second city before 2000BC (but not too early, usually you want to build 2 workers and tech all needed worker techs and Bronze Working before the second city is up)

2. After both cities are improved and grown to their happy caps (and after enough barb-defending, settler-escorting units are built: on noble and below couple of Warriors will do), put the first city to queue-build settlers and the second city to queue-build workers. You may chop forests to speed up building these, but don't do whipping when building workers & settlers: it just make things more complicated and is certainly not needed in lower leves.

3. Until there's no good city places left or until economy is truly crashing (deficit at 0% science), build a new city as soon as a new settler pops out and put 1-2 workers to improve it and connect it to trade network.

When a science slider drops, science needed is done with libraries and specialists (thus Writing is a high priority tech). Most cities will have cottages etc., and a slider will eventually rise. CoL and Currency are important techs

This way you can get quite good expanding speed (underexpanding is typical problem for beginners) and roughly enough workers per cities (too few workers is another beginner's problem).

[quot€]and I'm guessing it's because I'm expanding too quickly? I generally have 3-5 cities at this point all having 5+ population. [/quote]

As said before, your problem is underexpanding, not overexpanding. 6 cities in 1AD is sort of minimum.

 

[Supr49er]

@pillowmaker911

If you haven't done so, read Sisutil's Guide.