over-powered civ/leader combinations

I was NC

Warlord
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Do we think players will figure out ways to combine civs and leaders to be overpowered in certain ways. (Maybe someone already has?) For example, _____ leading the _____ is better than any others in fighting wars during the Exploration age with a certain legacy.

No doubt Firaxis has tested all the permutations at least some, but did they do so enough? If there are such combos, maybe it doesn't really matter?
 
There are way too many combos to be tested, even on paper, and not even including things like attributes and wonders. There will of course be some ridiculously strong synergies between certain civs, combos, leaders, attributes, and wonders. I don‘t think it’s even worth to try to balance these, aside from some that might become meta.

I think it’s great fun to go through a table with all antiquity civs, choose one and the select a fitting leader. Then go on to exploration age, looking at your current hand of bonuses and traditions. Select one and then go further to the modern age.

But including attributes and wonders in this in theory to find the best? And potential bonuses from events? That‘s too tedious for me. I‘ll do that once I‘m actually playing.
 
With regards to balance, I'm sure Firaxis will tolerate some leader-civ combos that are overpowered. But they wil probably step in and tinker with a leader if that leader can easily string together three overpowered combos in a row.
 
Do we think players will figure out ways to combine civs and leaders to be overpowered in certain ways. (Maybe someone already has?) For example, _____ leading the _____ is better than any others in fighting wars during the Exploration age with a certain legacy.

No doubt Firaxis has tested all the permutations at least some, but did they do so enough? If there are such combos, maybe it doesn't really matter?
Biggest way is looking at synergies

ie
Not a synergy: Leader gets + combat strength, Civ gets +combat strength
Synergy: Leader gets +combat str for Suzerains, Civ gets Suzerains more easily

ie Charlemagne has synergy with any civ with Sci/Military UBs, civs with better Cavalry UU and Civs with happiness bonuses (more celebrations)
 
Here are a list of some Synergies i've found between civs. I didn't just want to do ones based on who's the clearest choice for gaining victory points in a certain area otherwise Amina leading Aksum > Songhai > America would've been a must have.

 
You can think of several interraction that make a leader strong with civs:
- If a CIV has bonus similar to the leader, you will have one period with rather strong bonuses. However the other ages may be less in sync.
- You can have a leader that allow you to have a string of CIV (antiquity-exploration-modern) with very synergic powers, that would not be possible (historic unlocks) without that leader
- If a CIV is created that have a strong power compensated by a distinc weakness, a leader may be able to alleviate that weakness, making the paring strong.

But let's be frank, in CIV games you still have a strong RNG facet that could make a "weak" paring strive compared to an "ideal" paring if the tiles, discoveries and geography is against you...
 
You can think of several interraction that make a leader strong with civs:
- If a CIV has bonus similar to the leader, you will have one period with rather strong bonuses. However the other ages may be less in sync.
- You can have a leader that allow you to have a string of CIV (antiquity-exploration-modern) with very synergic powers, that would not be possible (historic unlocks) without that leader
- If a CIV is created that have a strong power compensated by a distinc weakness, a leader may be able to alleviate that weakness, making the paring strong.

But let's be frank, in CIV games you still have a strong RNG facet that could make a "weak" paring strive compared to an "ideal" paring if the tiles, discoveries and geography is against you...
Less in sync, except if the civic card is a tradition 😊
 
I have done some crunching and there are quite a few obvious synergies just from leader/civ attributes. Until the reveals are all done, can't really spot which will be awesome.....not long now!
 
  • Tradition - Xenia: Increased Influence towards initiating and progressing the Befriend Independent Action.
  • Tradition - Helikhilenawewipe: Increased Influence Efficiency to the Befriend Independent action.
Assuming these traditions do stack, then Greece > Shawnee might be Matthias level nuts for city states.

Though I was having a hard time finding the gameplay that shows progressing the independent people action. If that is not affected by these traditions the shawnee card and it's only the initial befriend independent when you meet them, then maybe not as strong.
 
I'm thinking Trung Trac of Rome can be a good start for a warring civ. Trung Trac gives a headstart to Commanders, Rome has a strong unique Commander. Legatus can settle Towns after a set number of promotions, Roman civics give Commanders promotion. Under TT, I'm pretty sure the first Legatus can immediately settle a Town. Persia also has a unique commander that allows you to speed up wars, if you want to go full aggressive.
In Exp and Mod, I'm not sure if TT only gives promotions to the first commander or the first commander of each type. If she only gives to 1 commander, Mongolia or Spain. If she gives promotions to 1 commander of each type, Spain or Majapahit. Either way, Spain with their unique great people seems amazing with TT.
 
I'm thinking Trung Trac of Rome can be a good start for a warring civ. Trung Trac gives a headstart to Commanders, Rome has a strong unique Commander. Legatus can settle Towns after a set number of promotions, Roman civics give Commanders promotion. Under TT, I'm pretty sure the first Legatus can immediately settle a Town. Persia also has a unique commander that allows you to speed up wars, if you want to go full aggressive.
In Exp and Mod, I'm not sure if TT only gives promotions to the first commander or the first commander of each type. If she only gives to 1 commander, Mongolia or Spain. If she gives promotions to 1 commander of each type, Spain or Majapahit. Either way, Spain with their unique great people seems amazing with TT.
Yeah, I'm thinking of taking TT through the whole "historical" path of Rome-Spain-Mexico, Mexico's great people are also very commander-centric.
 
I think for a specialist-focused run, Ibn Battuta running Khmer > Abbasid > ??? will be really strong.
  • Khmer gives traditions that grants bonus gold from specialists and reduced maintenance for them, and it can make sure we get the Angkor Wat for more specialist slots. The other growth stuff will also help our cities grows faster for more specialists.
  • Abbasid gives 2 unique buildings and a tradition that grants more adjacency bonuses for buildings and quarters, which our specialists can then amplify massively. The unique quarter gives each specialist a flat science bonus, and the civ ability will pay out gold often
  • Ibn Battuta firstly, he gives guaranteed access to Abbasid. Secondly, I feel is actually better than leaders like Confucius or Pachacuti, who has specific ability related to specialists, because I think some of the strongest specialist related effects are actually found in the expansionist leader attribute tree, more than in the leader's actual abilities. The left side of the tree can give you 10% city growth rate, 25% food refund when adding specialist, 30% food and happiness for specialist maintenance (if 3 cities only, which is the goal), and +1 specialist limit in all cities. All these takes 5 expansionist attribute points, and I'm not sure how much you can get from events etc, but I don't think it will be very easy for other leaders to get there. Ibn battuta, on the other hand, can guarantee that by the first civic of the exploration age (4 wildcard points from his ability plus the one you can buy from legacy). And if we do get a lot of attribute points through gameplay, other attribute trees also have powerful effects that can eventually lead to +2 science or +2 culture per specialists
Haven't seen any modern age civ that can continue this chain, but actually I think the specialist-based yields may be able to work well with anything and aim for any victory condition
 
Roman Legatus as a Settler.

Is his ability OP? What if you combine the Romans with Trung Trac?

XP needed to reach the next Army Commander level at standard speed:
15 -> lvl 1 -> 30 -> lvl 2 -> 45 -> lvl 3 -> 60 -> lvl 4 -> 75 -> lvl 5 -> 90 -> lvl 6 -> 105 -> lvl 7 -> 120 -> lvl 8 -> 150 -> lvl 9 -> 180 -> lvl 10

At fast speed: 10, 20, 30... to 120 from lvl 9 to lvl 10 and at online speed (Marbozir): 7, 15, 23... to 90 from lvl 9 to lvl 10

At the beginning, a single attack gives about 4 XP (according to Marbozir). You need max 15 combat actions (an attack with your two units during your single turn = two combat actions) to reach 60 XP.

You need 60 XP for your Legatus to settle his first town (O XP with Trung Trac) and 225 XP to settle his second town. IMHO it is better to train three (180 XP) or even four (240 XP) Legati in addition to the first free one, rather than focusing on the first one beyond his 3rd level, because this way you can get three or four new towns instead of a single one. Anyway Trung Trac seems to be worth exactly 60 XP or max 15 combat actions.
 

I could tell you about how the Maurya are secretly the biggest warmongers in the game, but this above video lays it out perfectly.
 
This exposé was insane :eek2:
I'm curious what would have happened if he hadn't literally broken the game, seemingly his capital would grow a pop every turn, and he'd only be able to add 2 specialists per tile (in this age) which he'd hit pretty fast. Would the city still grow but not display the interactive growth event, would it have just stopped growing, or would happiness levels eventually stop his plan (unlikely I feel)? Can only imagine it would get more busted as he goes from age to age as well as he can do this to each settlement he decides to turn into a city.
 
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