1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Over The Reich JPetroski vs. Prof. Garfield

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by Prof. Garfield, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Here's a new game of Over the Reich:
    JPetroski (Allies) vs. Prof. Garfield (Germans)

    JPetroski Turn 1:
    A few targets hit in the Ruhr and a U-Boat sunk.

    Prof Garfield Turn 1:
    Attacked a couple bombers, nothing killed.

    Other Stuff:

    I've attached the current OTR scenario; as well as a what JPetroski needs in a separate file.

    changes:

    Changed events so that the scenario only looks in the OTR folder for lua files (instead of in other places, including the lua folder in the tot directory). Added civlua.lua and functions.lua to the scenario files.

    Commented out the flak 'air raid warning' mechanic, since flak is now only reactive and not active.

    Added an event to give regensburg the critical industry improvement it is supposed to start the game with.

    Stuff to look at:
    There is a German Bofors at (197,62,2), which I disbanded, but should probably be removed before the final release. I could make an event do do this, instead.

    Regensburg should have a critical industry added, though I have a justOnce event that will do it, if we don't bother changing the scenario file again.

    Some airfields in France have production nearly complete on aircraft. Since aircraft can only be built in Germany now, it might make sense to get rid of the shields in France, and put them in airfields in Germany.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    As to our match:

    -In what I believe will change the night war dramatically, beaufighters intruder aircraft roam into Germany, shooting down 2x Me110 and straffing a Ju88C on the ground at Jever, damaging it.
    -Typhoons destroy radar near Le Havre
    -2x U-Boats destroyed in the Atlantic with a 3rd damaged

    I was not able to locate this in my workon save so I am not sure why that is there. 197,62,2 is not a valid coordinate, but I didn't see one anywhere near it, either.

    -I've changed this - for our match, finish the aircraft that are nearly built and then please move to build something else there.

    -I did not change this because you have made the event.

    Attached is the new scenario and a new game text as I noticed the starting text on the difficulty screen was still referencing 300 turns and 45 objectives rather than 125 and 58. I'm going to try to keep updating as we find stuff so hopefully this can be the final match before we release this and are Done with a capital D.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    I could only see it when it activated. It probably has something to do with the fact that an allied city is on that square. Since Germany doesn't possess Bofors, I can just delete all German Bofors at the start of the scenario when we make other last minute fixes.

    I'll have the save and will play shortly.
     
  4. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Attacked some aircraft, I think I killed one.

    Events updated so that the message concerning flak fortifying and notifying about nearby aircraft no longer shows, since the corresponding events no longer exist.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    4x Me110 and 1xJu88C killed. I think I got a few U-Boats too. Dusseldorf attacked, as was a port (Cherbourg I think) but neither was knocked out.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Killed 2 beaufighters, a Stirling, an A-20, and a convoy.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    Essen and Cologne bombed. Several ports attacked but not all destroyed (I think I may have got one), Paris attacked but I can't destroy the factory. 2x 190 shot down, 1x Me110, 3x Ju88C.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Downed 3 beaufighters, a stirling, and a B17.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    -The Ruhr continues to be heavily attacked by RAF Bomber Command with a few urban targets destroyed.
    -The industry near Paris continues to hold out and can't be destroyed by my rookie bombers.
    -Le Havre is finished off.
    -I attack 2x U-Boats but don't sink either
    -Spitfires engage and destroy 2x Me109 near Calais
    -Seeing a large formation near Paris, we decide discretion is the better part of valor and leave that be.
    -I shot down at least one maybe two Me110 at night (just FYI - this model is not very survivable at night, but I did make a change to try and reduce how easy it is to kill them. See below).

    A Thing I did:
    -I changed the beaufighter ammo to the weaker one. I left the Mosquitos with interceptor ammo for now. Either use the events I'm uploading or change line 1521 to read munition created 95 if you've been tinkering with the events on your own. S

    Things to consider:
    -If bombers are actually survivable now, moving that defense of targets back from 18 to 20 might make sense. I was expecting slaughter for no gain, because they do have considerable trouble knocking out targets at 20 (18 is no cake walk either), but several are getting through now. I guess we'll see how it plays out. I suppose it does seem to take a large effort to kill it at 18, anyway.
    -Keep an eye on reactions. I nerfed them quite a bit after the last game, but that was also because quite soon in the last game, you were able to put up 10,15, 20 batteries and they were one-shotting everything I had. Now they're weaker but we'll see how it develops in a bit after your defenses are in play.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Killed an Urban Center and Construction Crew near Plymouth, and a beaufighter, 3 stirlings on night map.

    Beaufighter doesn't seem to react to ME110, and I think Spitfires don't react to FW190s. Not sure if this is deliberate.

    Note that the urban targets are still defending at 24, since we tied their defensive strength to some technologies (I think radar). I think 18 defence for daytime targets is fine, since you no longer get in a couple good hits when the target isn't veteran.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    We receive notification that the industry III near Dusseldorf has burned down due to inadequate fire protection.
    -We chase a bunch of He111's all over creation but can't kill any near Plymouth.
    -3x Me110 and 1x Me109 fall in dogfights
    -Paris industry is finished off
    -We attack railyards to the NE of Paris but can't finish them
    -Our recon bird spots an undefended airfield, Morlaix, and multiple A20s are diverted there. I think we destroy 2x Fw190F, and a few Stukas. We also hit some other aircraft, bombers mostly, but don't destroy them.



    The Spitfire wasn't. I guess I forgot to add them in. It's fixed, with them reacting the same as the 109 line.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Downed a beaufighter, 3 stirlings, 2 A-20s and 3 damaged B17s.

    I think the Germans could use one or two Sdkfz units in Western France to start. Between airfields and radar stations, there is a lot to protect. I don't think everything needs to start protected, but some mobile flak would give options. With the A-20s being useful in the battle of the Atlantic, I think Germany might need to start with a little more defence against low level bombing.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Oh, I also realized that extra rail lines weren't drawn in, now that trains have to return to Germany from France.
     
  14. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    We shoot down 4x Fw190, 2x Me109, 4x Me110, and sink 3x(?) U-Boats. We finish off the railyards near Paris. We attack the port of Rotterdam, but don't dent it.

    Let's see how that works out... I think another route is probably necessary, making it 3.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Down 5 spitfires and a stirling.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    Ports of Antwerp and Amsterdam destroyed.

    I like how we require veteran swap to only work for fully healthy units, but it is a little odd keeping a burning B-17 around for several turns waiting for it to heal.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    Downed an A20, damaged a B17, sunk a convoy.

    If we have a unit type to spare, I'd like to suggest a 'camouflage netting' (or, maybe, 'decoys') unit, that would offer some cheap defence for airfields. Basically, for something like 30 shields, the unit could absorb a couple hits, before the actual aircraft are vulnerable. It would give airfields (especially airfields in France) something to build, and sort of bridge the gap between undefended airfields, and airfields defended by flak. To do what we want, we might give it high defense, but make it take extra damage in combat resolution.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    6x Wolfpacks killed, I chased around an He111 again.

    I'm not sure if we have a spot left or not. We also might take a different look at the light flak and repurpose it this way (reduce its cost, but also ensure if an airfield holding it is attacked, it takes extra damage).
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Ontario
    2 Beaufighters and a damaged B17 downed. Lost a couple units to a B17 group, before deciding not to engage further. I'm wondering if B17 reaction is too strong, at least compared to fighter reactions. I'm not convinced this needs changing, but this isn't the first turn I've thought B17s defend a bit well compared to fighters.

    Also sunk 2 convoys, and burned down an urban center near Plymouth.

    The prototype units aren't being used anymore.

    I don't know about changing light flak to take more damage. With the A20's speed and range (along with the fact that it is effective in the battle of the Atlantic), I need the flak to protect my airfields and radar installations.

    The A20 is feeling a bit too powerful a bit too soon. Since it is useful for the battle of the Atlantic, there isn't a downside to investing early, but it also threatens radar stations and airfields, since it is too fast to intercept, so they all need flak along with the cost of establishing the radar itself. If the Allied player had to research it, it would delay something else, or be delayed a few turns during the initial research phases.

    Should we eliminate construction crews from the build options for airfields? Airfields won't grow past size 1 now, so unless we want to have airfields disbanded, we shouldn't give the option to build construction crews.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,117
    Freiburg is attacked. 2x Ju88C destroyed. A couple of U-Boats killed, but they get a convoy that slams into one of them.

    I've taken the 2nd prototype and created a unit "barrage balloon" which either of us can build on the low alt map. It is a ground unit that moves 1 space per turn, so if you wanted to really protect an airfield, you could invest in more of them. Right now it is 30 shields per your suggestion. Right now, it defends at 20 defense because I believe your intention is to just have a high defense to guarantee it defends first, but we'll damage it via events.

    Ideally, there'd be a 80% chance that it "pops" and simply dies and maybe a 20% chance that it takes out the aircraft that hit it, but I don't know if that is possible given the aircraft isn't actually attacking, just the ammo it fires. If there's a way around that, it would be cool to have a chance that low flying aircraft "hit it."

    I'd rather not give the Allies another thing to research as I'm unsure if they can research what they have currently.

    The real issue is that the A20s are far more useful than they should be. Perhaps we should use the 2nd prototype slot for some sort of ASW weapon (depth charge?) that Sunderlands get. Then, we make the bombs the A20s carry ineffective against U-Boats. Perhaps the B-24 gets the depth charge and can only fire it at low alt, but at substantially greater cost than the Sunderlands (I was thinking maybe if the Sunderlands costs 20, the B-24 could cost 100 so you really want Sunderlands).

    If A20s aren't useful against U-Boats, I would not build as many of them and would keep only a few for certain targets.

    I'd say yes.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page