Overcouncil is almost competely worthless?

[Thunder_Gr]

Well... since Decius was on the council he ALREADY had Honor... but had zero interest in converting to Empy.... I did talk a weak Llos who had hated me all game into converting, but they're too far away to be of any value.

If he wasn't interested, he didn't have enough people on Empy, yet. You could have helped a bit by spreading the religion, before you asked him to change to empy.

How can I easily monitor power ratings? When I played BTS, I used the BAT mod.... so I had relative power ratings onscreen at all times.... other than seeing if I'm in 1st, 2nd, or whatever in total troops, how would I know how I stack up, without micromanaging that?

If I am not mistaken, the power graph gives you an idea about your relative military...

 

[Jie]

What's also annoying is the text of the overcouncil when your the head "As head of the UN council"

 

[Kyroshill]

If he wasn't interested, he didn't have enough people on Empy, yet. You could have helped a bit by spreading the religion, before you asked him to change to empy.

I could have... but it's not something I usually do....

I don't like OB much unless it really benefits me..... from my experience, OB just means AI go and settle territory you were trying to save for a later date.... the AI always seems to have one or two settlers sitting around waiting, so will always beat me to the land if I give OB....

I have also become very hesitant about AIs sharing my faith too early in game as well.... as this just means a race to the religious heroes.... and that is a race you CANNOT lose and stay in the game.... so I tend not to spread my faith too quickly.


OK..... so one final question....

Should Defensive Pacts make it impossible to DoW? I mean.... what's the point of a DP if the civ you've signed it with is the one who is going to attack you?

 

[Senethro]

No. If I want to kill someone I don't want some bit of paper I signed 50 turns ago getting in my way.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

OK..... so one final question....

Should Defensive Pacts make it impossible to DoW? I mean.... what's the point of a DP if the civ you've signed it with is the one who is going to attack you?

A defensive pact, as well as any other agreement, is canceled on DoW.
The only ones you should not be able to DoW are your Vassals, and this only if they do not rebel against you(as is currently the case).
Breaking an agreemement should have diplomatic consequences.
What I propose is to make it give "-" modifiers with AI friendly with the one that is DoWed upon and "+" modifiers to the ones hostile. Neutrals should also be given "-" modifiers against the backstabber, IMO. Breaking your promishes does not help your political profile outside your own country. And causes some unrest within the country's population if not brainwashed properly .

 

[Kyroshill]

So Defensive Pacts are worthless.... maybe they should be removed from the game then

 

[Thunder_Gr]

So Defensive Pacts are worthless.... maybe they should be removed from the game then

Why they are worthless? Any AI outside the pact will consider your combined military before thinking about a DoW. This leads to a much lower propability of someone DoWing you or your partner. In addition, DP gives "+" bonuses so that it is easier to maintain a friendly relationship with the other side.

 

[Kyroshill]

Why they are worthless?

Because I'm still mad about it

 

[Nihilus]

IF an AI's attitude towards my nation is pleased or friendly, I want it to mean that an attack by them is a vary rare event. Now reaching that state of "friendship" might be harder to reach as Difficulty levels increase, for example, by having to maintain a larger army or garrison near my friend's border in order to make having my friendship worthwhile - I can accept that. It's partly that way now, it seems. Although I'd think a good civ would need less persuading than an evil civ.

But in either case, good civ/ bad civ, the attitude should be a relatively reliable indicator of what to expect. (Balseraphs excepted, of course). It does add to the game's flavor when a civ acts according to its alignment. You can argue that evil civs can't be trusted but one could take that into account by realizing friendship for the evil civ means someone they'll backstab sometime but meanwhile it's in their interest to be friends. As that mutual interest declines, the attitude would decline also.

after reading that i'm wondering whether it might be a good solution to actually codify that into the diplomacy system: leaders that are somewhat honorable lore-wise would never attack at Pleased and better, but there would be a new relationship modifier "You are weak"/"You are strong" that makes that part of the AI's decision more transparent and makes it harder to get it to Pleased.
possibly one would need to include a third state "We fear you are becoming to strong" to keep the game challenging when the human players gains power.

and yeah, Perpentach should just throw a dice to decide whether/whom to attack ^_^

The system is workable now.

of course it is, after all, we are playing the game with great enthusiasm

It's just disconcerting to be attacked by your good-aligned friends seemingly as often as by your evil-aligned ones.

but that still bugs me a lot

 

[Ksi]

I think if the council allowed you to vote on a resolution to declare war on any specific enemy (or groups) while you are still at peace, it would be immensely powerful.

 

[Korias]

Benefits of the Overcouncil range from the +6 Diplomodifier as well as the +1 Trade routs. Beyond that, the Force/End war button is useful, especially later on. I agree with Ksi, that feature could use a boost. But the Overcouncil is made for larger groups to keep the peace, as per Lugus. Esus's Undercouncil is designed for a few sneaky civs to reap the benefits- smaller teams mean more profits in their case.

I would personally like to see some benefits of getting some sort of Overcouncil UU that can be spawned ala the Nightwatch and the Overcouncil, but that's been suggested before. The +6 Diplomodifier really does balance out everything else if you're keeping your powerlevel up.

 

[zup]

Perpentach should not roll dice every turn though. He's often too busy checking out a new carnival to worry about war.

 

[GoodGame]

overcouncil is +6 diplo, so use that to get a permament alliance.


Though maybe an overcouncil voting option should be to ban civs from the overcouncil, including overcouncil members?


Though I do like the idea of an overcouncil UU. Maybe you get it free if a fellow overcouncil member declares war on you? Or maybe there should be increased war anger in the civ that declares war on a fellow over council member? +6 We're angry at how you dishonor us before the council?

 

[Kyroshill]

I never use PA..... always seemed like insta-win to me.....

Suck up to the most powerful civ..... get PA...... then pick your victory condition : )

 

[Enthralled]

I just get annoyed having to vote, yet again, on banning chaos mana. Over and over.

Why are these pointless votes even held? The AI should not select an option that has no affect.

I would go so far as to say that the auto election should not come up if you have no choice left to you that causes any affect.

 

[apotheoser]

I just get annoyed having to vote, yet again, on banning chaos mana. Over and over.

Why are these pointless votes even held? The AI should not select an option that has no affect.

I would go so far as to say that the auto election should not come up if you have no choice left to you that causes any affect.

Theoretically, you could always repeal the ban or defy the resolution. The votes are set up so that almost every vote passes every time, though. (Votes that require 1 out of 3 or 4 people, for example). You can always use it as a chance to Defy as well, which seems to veto any resolution.

 

[Fenboy]

Sure, but every leader has a limit on the "different religions" hate. (iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit).

Yeah. Once ran a game where I was running Empy Kurios, and both Hannah and Sandalphon were Octopus Overlords. They were over on another continent, and Hannah was all but landlocked, so I wasn't too worried about either, and treated them exactly the same. By the late-game period Sandalphon was Friendly while Hannah was Furious. I'm still not sure how that happened...

 

[orgonebox]

I had too much fun in a recent game playing the Calabim, running empyrean and on the undercouncil. Apparently radiant guards can upgrade to vampires, creating an army that can stop you in its tracks followed by a skeleton bashing and a final crushing blow from the units themselves.

I like the empyrean as a religion, but I never run anything other than undercouncil. Smuggler's ports and slaves are far too useful compared to anything the overcouncil might offer. I usually want the AI to go to war with me anyway.

 

[zup]

Not having to exit the diplomacy screen because the AI spams endless requests to buy mana is almost good enough of a reason to declare a war on the rest of the world.

 

[Tasunke]

By the way ... if you choose to go against the Undercoucil (maybe Overcoucil too?) you not only make the vote null and void (annoying to others) but you get a permanent 5 unhappyiness in ALL of your cities

Its truly a beautiful thing for an arrogant player in MP to do such a thing. Be warned.