[BTS] Pacal Monarch- Getting over the hump

[sampsa]

Pretty big decisions you rushed through there. 2 workers before a settler might be ok with a lot of forest, but since for example city A is instantly connected via river, getting it down asap is perhaps more important. Switching to slavery seems simply a mistake. You should get the settler out first, then switch to get 2nd city founded 1T sooner.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Pretty big decisions you rushed through there. 2 workers before a settler might be ok with a lot of forest, but since for example city A is instantly connected via river, getting it down asap is perhaps more important. Switching to slavery seems simply a mistake. You should get the settler out first, then switch to get 2nd city founded 1T sooner.

Ok. If I had just built a settler due in 9 on turn 25, it would arrive on turn 34. If I start the settler instead of a second worker, chopped one forest tile, don't revolt, the settler is in on turn 33. What I have here are two less forest tiles, a whip that will drop the pop 1 if I am to bring the settler in on the turn 34, one turn later because of the revolt and I have two workers instead of the one. So you think the settler one turn earlier is the optimal play here is what I am hearing.

 

[krikav]

Might be! Hard to tell without trying or calculating.
Whipping exp workers are neat.

 

[M60A3TTS]

I went ahead and replayed the last set of turns to follow sampsa's advice for earliest settlement of city #2. It is turn 33, and the settler is on the way to site A. I will revolt to slavery now.

Research on wheel is done. Started on pottery for a granaries. Starting on a second worker. I chopped only one forest tile SE of the capital for the settler and pre-chopped the one to the east.

 

[sampsa]

pre-chopped the one to the east.

Why pre-chop though? Getting now is much better than getting them later. Had you finished that chop, you'd be close to 1-turning that worker, which means it can contribute more worker turns and so on.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Why pre-chop though? Getting now is much better than getting them later. Had you finished that chop, you'd be close to 1-turning that worker, which means it can contribute more worker turns and so on.

I don't really know how aggressive to be with chopping in a slave economy. It's 20 hammers vs 30 per pop and there is a limit to how much I can chop eventually. I'm also thinking about possibly building Mids although that means deciding about going for HBR after pottery for pastures or Masonry for Mids and finding stone.

Should I just be aggressive in chopping and whipping out x number of workers and settlers with a needed warrior in between?

 

[sampsa]

It's 20 hammers vs 30 per pop and there is a limit to how much I can chop eventually.

The thing is though that 20 now is quite a lot better than 30 later. This is why pre-chopping becomes a thing only when you are very close to maths.

Should I just be aggressive in chopping and whipping out x number of workers and settlers with a needed warrior in between?

Yes. The lower the level, the lower the maintenance, thus even more incentive to expand. On deity also barbs are so brutal that safety will very quickly become an issue. But on monarch I'd try to expand to 3-4 as fast as humanly possible.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Turn 36

City 2 is in place and the worker arrives next turn to improve the floodplains. Worker in 2 at the capital and a monument to be whipped in Lakamha.



Now in Mutal, I should whip the worker out and put the overflow into a warrior?

 

[sampsa]

No, definitely don't 1-pop whip size 4 city, especially one without a granary. Just finish worker naturally, perhaps start another worker immediately after that and whip it next turn. 2-pop whipping is so much better, because -penalty is the same, but you get to transform 2 pop to 2*30=60.

Also note that in general your units should not be inside your cities at this point. They should be fortified on forest hills and such defensive spots to prevent barbs from spawning.

 

[lymond]

2pop exp worker should work out quite well on OF too. ( I mighta 1 popped next turn though if Pottery was finishing.)

yeah..you don't need units in your cities this early. Any units should be spawn bustin'. This becomes very important as you move up levels.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Got it.

Turn 40. I let the worker finish in Mutal and then 2-pop whipped another. So now there are 3 workers on the map. I chopped out one of the pre-chop tiles to put the invested hammers into a settler. I still need to get another warrior out, so once the overflow hammers are credited to the settler next turn, I want to queue up a warrior in front of that.

 

[lymond]

yeah...see that nice OF from the 2pop worker...that's 1h less than max. 2 poppin' workers and settlers is really how one begins to excel at this game.

One little trick I do if I really need a monument (though not sure how urgent that one actually is there since I assume a] you don't have AH b] Mutal will eventually pick up cows itself - though no ep really delays that a bit), is to time a quick chop with 8 to 9H invest in Monument. Often you can time this just right in 3 to 4 turns (depending on where worker is) but adjusting hammers in that city. Lak only has 1H so it takes 9 turns to get to 9h, but if you work a 2H1F tile for 3 turns you get 9h. Time this with a chop on the 3rd turn on monument gets done fast.

Again, only if I really need a monument, and you don't really need a monument in Lak.

(edit: nvm...somehow Mutal has its 2nd border pop ...not sure how that happened so fast...or maybe it's about right..don't know with no ep)

 

[M60A3TTS]

Turn 41
Chop the other pre-chopped forest tile and that overflow will go into the queued settler as well.



Turn 42 warrior is out and settler in 4.

 

[sampsa]

Where are you going to settle 3rd? 1S of copper? You should secure that area with warrior(s) asap. I don't think writing is good, especially if going for cow/copper. AH first? Not sure if I like Lakamha monument. A granary would be a lot more useful. You have FIN fp cottages, so gold is not that urgent. No makes it so painful as you need 20 for border pop...

Mainly what you need now is workers to chop and cottage, cities to get granaries up.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Agree on AH being the more immediate need, so switched that. No research has been done on writing.

I did not know that no espionage made a difference in the initial border pop so thanks for pointing that out.

Is city 3 1S of the copper a bit of an aggressive move? Is that with the idea of taking down England in an early war? He has ivory and admittedly him with phants and me without is not a prospect to look forward to. 1W of the copper would still close off that part of the map at the cost of not having immediate access to the cow which would need the border pop at Lakahma. It would also include a couple coastal tiles which isn't ideal.

I want to get that copper up asap, to deal with any barb surprises. Just not enough fogbusters available at the moment.

 

[sampsa]

Is city 3 1S of the copper a bit of an aggressive move? Is that with the idea of taking down England in an early war?

Not really. I just think it's a better spot as it can steal a fp and immediately claims cow (plus the obvious benefit of +1 city center).

 

[M60A3TTS]

Not really. I just think it's a better spot as it can steal a fp and immediately claims cow (plus the obvious benefit of +1 city center).

ok, city 3 founded and working on copper mine.

Nappy met. We have three cities now to their two.

Just switched Lakamha to granary.

 

[Gumbolt]

Are you planning to rush English? I wouldn't irrigate too many flood plains as it takes a long time. If rushing hook up copper and get whipping/chopping. 3 tiles to the capital is not far to walk your axes.

If expansive a 2 pop whip at size 4 wiith 4 hammers on a axe would nearly complete a granary with overflow? Chop, chop!

 

[M60A3TTS]

Are you planning to rush English? I wouldn't irrigate too many flood plains as it takes a long time. If rushing hook up copper and get whipping/chopping. 3 tiles to the capital is not far to walk your axes.

If expansive a 2 pop whip at size 4 wiith 4 hammers on a axe would nearly complete a granary with overflow? Chop, chop!

The thought had occured to me, but I'd have to chop down most of the remaining forests to get...what...12 to 14 axes to take down a protective leader capital that may have walls. And the axes probably wouldn't have many promotions since I've built no raxes yet.



And then there is the fact Nappy and Churchill aren't getting along.



What do others think?

 

[konata_LS]

You have FIN fp cottages, so gold is not that urgent.

Even with FIN flood plains cottages, the +1 - from gold means every city can work an extra cottage, or suffer 1 extra whip, which is still nice. Plus, I don't think the player can get early Monarchy in trade with Nappy or Churchill, so the gold is still worth it.
Agree about "not that urgent", cottaging the fp is better for now. I think the best timing to improve and connect the gold is when most the cities grow to size 5 or 4.

What do others think?

Where did Nappy's scout or unit come from?
If Nappy is on the east side of Churchill, probably it's better to keep Churchill alive, because having Churchill as neighbour is less dangerous than having Nappy as neighbour.