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Pacific War: Empires Clash

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by Lighthearter, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. ilduce349

    ilduce349 (Financial, Philo)

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    That is where your wrong. Unlike in computer games (except Civilization) and video games, 2 things matter more then anything else when it came to early advancements:
    1. Population
    2. Location
    It was those 2 things that allowed Europe to dominate the world. Population makes sense, unlike in computer games, the more people you have, the more likely you are to break through in research, so therefore the more advanced you will be and the better your (in this case) navy will be. It will also mean you can build more navies. More numbers and better soldiers = Garenteed win! That is why the Europeans won.
    2. Location: About a week ago, I read in National Geographic a 10 page article explaining why Europe ended up colonizing Africa, despite up until 400 BCE, Africa held every advantage. And based on the concrete evidence they gave, no matter how many times you replay through history with "what if this happened?' its going to be either Europe or Asia that colonizes the world.
    Siam was colonized by France (So wrong) Japan and China were the only world powers outside or Europe, and actually attempted to establish colonies themselves. (So Don't count them)
    Korea was owned by Russia in 1905, technically European colonialism but on a more continental scale.
    So in reality only 2 countries have not originated from a Colonial Empire. They are (Drum roll please):
    1. Ethiopia (and Somalia, but they are in the exact same location, so we can count it as 1): Ethiopia was the first empire to successfully repel a full scale Invasion from Europe. Despite the superior technology (Rifles vs Muskets), superior numbers and better supplies and training, the British lost and once determined that the land was mostly desert. They determined it wasn't worth taking.
    2. Afghanistan: The British tried twice, the Russians tried once (in the 1980's but still) the dutch (or was it the Portuguese I forget) tried once. Now the Americans are trying it. Afghanistan is the only country to repel colonial powers 5 times. And as a result are still and independent nation.
    Hawaii would be worse off then those 2, who were in the same continent and during the wars had almost as good quality weapons. What I suggest (based on the current Empire we have) we were a former dutch (Or Chinese/Japanese if you want us to not be European) colony that rebelled successfully (Like America), and established our own country. Its the only way to have a semi-realistic history scale, and have our empire be a world power.
     
  2. Lighthearter

    Lighthearter President of the United States

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    Suspension of Disbelief. Besides, no one ever knows when something really strange will happen. If it makes you feel better and superior to my imagination, you can say aliens arrived in the 1200s and gave the Hawaiians population-boosting steroids and gunpowder and strong ships. If it makes you feel all warm fine - I'm using my creativity in Gotterdammerung because that's where I need it.

    - Lighthearter
     
  3. Duke Blackstone

    Duke Blackstone John Marchman

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    Population does NOT equate to advancement. Think India or pre-modern China. Also, compare the most recent advances from Japan and Korea to the way the U.S. has fallen. Social factors are MUCH more powerful. Overpopulation of the Hawaiian islands could lead to a forced change in location, giving the inhabitants motive to expand physically and technologically, or starve. The increased sailing skills could have evened the playing field against the europeans.

    I admit i have no idea where they could have gotten the wood or metal for ships.. China?


    Edit: Irrelevant.
     
  4. Omega124

    Omega124 Challenging Fate

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    Exact Quote from CIA Factbook

    Are you seriosuly going to doubt them?

    They're still Non-Europeans, therfore are "natives" in this case, ones whom were ahead socially and technolgically, but still natives.

    Erm, what?

    Russia owned more of Manchuria then they do now, but they ever got to Korea. Ever.

    Both Britian and Italy succesfully colonized Somalia.

    The British Raj did get parts of Afhganistan, and if you want to include Asian Imperalism, there's always Mongolia...

    Well, explain why the Dutch never colonized. Something as simple as the Dutch Revolt being put down is sufficent. You just need to explain!
     
  5. ilduce349

    ilduce349 (Financial, Philo)

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    China invented Gunpowder, the printing press, the compass. By population I don't just mean size of population (but that is the biggest factor) I mean the quality of the population:
    Longevity, Health of the population and Education of the population all take affect in the population aspect. Population does matter because the more (Healthy, Educated) people you have, the more likely you will have a breakthrough in technology. There is no question about it.

    I guess I was wrong, I thought that Frances empire in Indochina was larger. I'll change my original statement to 3.

    By colonists I never meant European colonists. The fact is both China and Japan had colonies of their own, and so as colonial powers themselves, were just as likely to fall to other empires as they did to themselves. They do not count.

    The Russia-Japanese war from 1904-1907 was fought over Korea, all though Russia never had full control of Korea during the war, they still controlled most of it for part of the war. (Also Japan colonized Korea :p)

    I forgot about Italy (Which in my defense didn't start their colonial empire until the 1900's), but was given the impression that Somalia won the war against the British, I'll grant that I was wrong here. The number is still 3:
    Thailand, Ethiopia and Afghanistan.
    They got killed by the natives, it was the worst war Britain ever participated in (They got owned by natives). Mongolia wasn't a colonial power, if you want to count every Imperialist nation, every country has been occupied at one time or another, so it just throws the entire argument out the window.

    Once again I suggest the theory that we were dutch rebels.
     
  6. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

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    Whatever. Take this outside of here.
     
  7. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    I figured it would have more to do with the Industrial Revolution that started 300 odd years ago.

    Dutch navies dominated the Indian Ocean in the 1600s. Before them it was the Portuguese. Neither were the most populous states of their era.

    Wrong.

    Wrong.

    It was hardly a "full-scale" invasion.

    The British ruled Somaliland until 1960 my friend.

    Afghanistan was pretty much a British Protectorate until 1919 my friend.

    1904 - 1905

    No they didn't. The heaviest fighting was in Russian-occupied Manchuria - Port Arthur, Dairen, Mukden, and such. Korea was already in Japan's sphere even before the war.
     
  8. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    To be fair, they lost, what is now, Cambodia, Laos, the Malay states of Kedah, Kelantan, Perlis and Terengganu, the Shan States in Burma and most pressingly the loss and subsequent return of some actual integral ethnically Thai territories. Basically, it got ripped to shreds and lost something like half of its claimed territories, which it had actually been managing to kinda run effectively before the French made a big showing in Indochina. It ultimately survived but it wasn't exactly pretty and probably owes more to its ability to selectively modernise than anything else.
     
  9. Lighthearter

    Lighthearter President of the United States

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    This is all very enlightening, but how about we focus on the GAME?

    - Lighthearter
     
  10. NedimNapoleon

    NedimNapoleon Weird Little Human

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    Put me out of the game,don't have time to manage everything (IOT,Europe elimination, SP2 KOH,life...)
     
  11. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    I'll play as President Captain Barrack Hussein Obama.

    History: Born in Kenya Hawaii, Obama always wondered what it would be like if he didn't choose to be the birth certificate forger Commander in Chief, and so he decided to become a ship captain in WWII (Just account it to time travel or something:mischief:)

    And so, he signed up, and here we are.

    (Yes, everything that was crossed out was a joke, but I'd like them in the bio anyway, though kept crossed out.)

    I am counting the starting five in this:

    Charisma: Affects crew loyalty and morale- 11
    Diplomacy: Affects their ability to get NPCs to sign off on repairs, refuels, etc. for their specific ship- 11
    Technical Knowledge: Affects their rolls to repair battle damage, etc- 9
    Tactical Knowledge: Affects their ability to stay a step ahead of enemy planners- 9
     
  12. ilduce349

    ilduce349 (Financial, Philo)

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    Obama should be 25 in charisma and 0 in everything else, as its the only thing he is competent at
     
  13. Lighthearter

    Lighthearter President of the United States

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    I'm not going to deal with RL politics in this thread. One reason is that I am highly offended by . . . basically everything in that post. Make up a fictional character. Not Obama. I'm not having this in my game.

    - Lighthearter
     
  14. ilduce349

    ilduce349 (Financial, Philo)

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    awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
     
  15. Lighthearter

    Lighthearter President of the United States

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    Drills begin tomorrow. Arya, Domination, I need stats!

    - Lighthearter
     
  16. Nukeknockout

    Nukeknockout Rusty Hinge

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    I think I'll go ahead and join. see what support I can provide to the fleet.

    name: Captain Julius de Tonto

    Academy score: ?/230

    level: ?(do we start at level zero or level one?)

    Bio: once a merchant from Rome, Julius fled to Hawaii during the Great War to escape the conflict. he originally joined the Hawaiian navy as a reservist because it would look good on his resume, but has been conscripted into the navy proper like every other reservist that escaped Hawaii. with the failure of his business and the probable execution of his wife and sisters, he has vowed to fight until he has repaid Japan in full.

    Stats:
    CHA:10
    TAC:8
    TEC:8
    DIP:14

    Ship: none yet


    Nukeknockout
    reservist in the Hawaiian navy
     
  17. arya126

    arya126 Squad Leader

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    Alright here is my bio and stats. Sorry for the delay but I wanted to wait and see if I could get on an actual keyboard first.

    Name: Jason Wayne

    Bio: a member of the wealthy Wayne family, he decided to move away instead and chose to join the hawaii royal navy. Top of his tactics class and distant cousin of batman, he has rose quickly through the ranks thus far. He even beat back an attack on his ship when he was patrolling near iwo jima, although he and his crew had to scuttle the cruiser after the fight due to advancing gap forces. A destroyer picked the survivors up a few hours later. He is ready to continue the fight.

    Tactical: 15
    Technical: 7
    Charisma: 10
    Diplomacy: 8
     
  18. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    @lighthearter- Why offensive it was just for fun

    @Ilduce- I more or less agree on Obama's supposed stats, but I needed balance.

    In any case

    Jack T. Solo

    Bio- Born in Hawaii, Jack T. Solo has been genetically enginneered to have the positive qualities of (You guess which three captains.)

    Stats:

    Charisma- 9

    Diplomacy- 9

    Tactical- 11

    Technical- 11
     
  19. Nukeknockout

    Nukeknockout Rusty Hinge

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    @Domination: it's offensive because it's rude, disrespectful, and simply not funny.(the last bit is the most important)

    not to mention completely and utterly wrong, as well as illogical to make those assumptions.

    if you want to slam democrats with your character, you can do that. just no RL politics, particularly Obama-bashing. The jury is still out on him, and LH and I support him considering the alternatives.

    all of this is to treated as invalid if LH says so

    Nukeknockout
    reservist in the Hawaiian navy
     
  20. arya126

    arya126 Squad Leader

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    How about we all just leave the RL politics out of this? Dom you are a radical who has no life besides bashing dems, ilduce you can never stop being extreme in your opinions, and LH and nuke are liberals. I'm a republican. It's not a good mix. So leave it out of here before you force LH to call in the mods!
     

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