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Pacifism: How much is this used by people?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by RagingCalm, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Chieftain

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    UI usually play on Marathon, and almost always spend significant time in Pacifism, even when I am playing for conquest. If I have secured borders, and don't plan to fight a war for some time, Pacifism allows me to bulb some key techs to gain a military advantage. It also helps generate the GPs needed for corporations, a not inconsiderable task given the cost of GPs at that stage of most games. While I do keep large forces to defend my borders, and at least enough attack forces to take down one big city if I need to, the cost of keeping those up for a hundred turns is far less than the cost of letting someone else have mining inc (assuming I want it).
     
  2. FriendoftheDork

    FriendoftheDork Keiser

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    I have used it to great effect with Phi leaders. Actually I should use it more since I seldom build large armies and instead focus on elite ones and city improvement.
     
  3. Joecoolyo

    Joecoolyo 99% Lightspeed

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    Games with a lot of war: No

    Anything else: Yes! :smug:
     
  4. KeloGBites

    KeloGBites Chieftain

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    Use it if I can't support a deterrent army due to economic problems, which is very very often nowadays. Parthenon+Philo Leader+Pacifism+NE can bulb you all the way to the bank. (Yes I'm addicted to Philosophical currently.)
     
  5. Swein Forkbeard

    Swein Forkbeard Nintendo Fan

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    Hello, Sir!
    High cost??? Pacifism is a no cost civic!!! Where's the high cost???

    Alright, seriously, I never thought it would be such a useful civic for me, but in my last game as Arabia that ended with a cultural victory I swapped into pacifism and free speech from organized religion and bureaucracy, and the reduction on civic upkeep was all too noticeable. Later on even when I drafted riflemen (SHOULD HAVE GONE INTO THEOCRACY TO DO THAT!!! Oh well) and initiated a machine gun training program in my cities, and even built some tanks and ships later, I was still saving up significant upkeep. I wasn't even last in power at the end of the game!
     
  6. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Professional Killjoy Moderator Supporter

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    It costs +1 gold per military unit, does it not?

    Yes, the civic is free, but if you have a large army, like I usually do, the hit to the economy can be significant. There are specific situations where the use of Pacifism is warranted, (and useful), and they have already been mentioned. I will only use it under the following conditions:

    1. I can run the civic and still afford to keep my research rate at 50% or more.
    2. I have some banked money so that if I must use it because of reason #3 below, I can run deficit research if need be.
    3. I need a GP quickly, to bulb a badly needed tech that I can't trade for.

    And it helps if I have a SPI leader, so that I can switch in and out of it quickly.
     
  7. BibiTref

    BibiTref Minor Troll Deity

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  8. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Chieftain

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    I guess I mostly use it in pursuit of culrural victories.
     
  9. RagingCalm

    RagingCalm Chieftain

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    Thanks for the advice, everyone. I just used it, as Roosevelt, for the first time and got either 3 or 4 Great People (3 Scientists and I think a Great Merchant). I'll definitely be using from now on during peacetime.
     
  10. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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  11. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    I often use Pacifism in conjunction with Vassalage for some time in the middle ages. If I have the pyramids, Rep+Vassalage+Caste+Pacifism is a great combo. You can simultaniously have lots of specialists due to Caste, a high science rate due to the Rep Specialist beakers, and lots of GP points due to Pacifism... all the while getting free unit support on a bunch of units and building 5XP units (with barracks) for the upcoming switch into wartime civics.

    Otherwise, usually just with SPI/PHI leaders as everyone else is saying. Note: Ghandi does well with Pacifism (duh) :p
     
  12. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Chieftain

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    You have a significant number of free units, even when doing mass war you can afford to run pacifism, I have very often run pacifism nonstop in games where I have won domination or conquest, that being said there are games where it is not as important for example, may run only during a GA to put out 4-5 GS to take steel with Lib and switch to theocracy at the end or something. Regardless Pacifism is IMO the single best religious civic, the 100% GP generation is HUGE especially when coupled with a GA, the upkeep is not that bad free units + no civic maintenance make it very nice, and I use pacifism probably more than any other religious civic, however I do use all of them with some degree of regularity
     
  13. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    I'll run Pacifism during a GA and switch back prior to it ending. I imagine that it would work quite well in isolation where you typically have considerably less of a military. So switching to Pacifism with an industrial leader could essentially give you 3 traits (and even better if you have the Parthenon). I think I'll try this in the next LHC.
     
  14. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    Pacifism doesn't double GG points does it...?
     
  15. Loki Strikes

    Loki Strikes Chieftain

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    it does not
     
  16. KeloGBites

    KeloGBites Chieftain

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    Hehe now that would be too funny if it did.
     
  17. jmas

    jmas I Can Has Imperium?

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    I'm a little puzzled by your saying that you "always use it with a Phi leader, if not Phi then rarely." From a relative standpoint, it's not giving you as much of a boost if you're PHI (versus if you're not): 50% more GPP than you would have had anyway (if PHI) vs. 100% more GPP (if not). I'm not saying it's not worth using with PHI, but to me it seems more desirable for non-PHI leaders, not less. Same thing for the Parthenon--more beneficial from a relative standpoint for the non-PHI leader. Also, Pacifism benefits all cities with the state religion, and Parthenon benefits ALL cities, so the "Phi + Parthenon + NE in GP Farm" you mention, while it could be a powerhouse for one city, does not make use of the potential benefits of having multiple cities farm GPs. Can you say more about your approach--for example, do you always focus on just one GP-producing city?
     
  18. Wlauzon

    Wlauzon Chieftain

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    Many times it is a must during the early to middle period when going for a cultural win. If you have the right combo of leaders, wonders, and Pacifism you can get some cities with almost obscene culture generation.
     
  19. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Chieftain

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    There is a trade off in this strategy though: by running specialists in a GA you lose the additional :commerce: and :hammers: generated by working tiles. That's not to say it isn't sometimes a good move, but it's important to know what you're giving up by doing this. Just a handful of cottages' lost :commerce: can cost you a turn (assuming you're not running representation/scientists) in a tech race. Likewise, it could be the difference between finishing buildings and being half done at the end of a GA. I generally only load up on specialists in a pacifism GA for cities whose lost benefits are relatively small. The one exception, when I am willing to nuke a top city's productivity during a GA for a GP, is when I need a particular GP and will get to it by loading up on specialists during a GA.
     
  20. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    ^I'm not changing the tiles that I'm working. It will often be a switch between OR to Pacifism. Sure, troop upkeep can be a little more and buildings could cost a little more, but that 8 turn tradeoff I'm more than willing to make to boost my GPP's if the situation is right.
     

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