1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[NFP] Pack1: Maya and Grand Colombia

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Haig, May 11, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,082
    You act like the old world had such well defined boundaries, especially when it came to royal houses.
    Here are all the "problems" with Civ V leaders then:
    Catherine was Prussian
    Washington was English
    William of Orange was born in the HRE (modern Germany)
    Alexander was Macedonian
    Hell Napoleon even born to a royal Italian house, just happened to be in a small part of France.
     
    Jeppetto, Guandao, CivLuvah and 10 others like this.
  2. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,478
    They might make use of the renown and lifetime system we saw. It would make sense for the Maya to snipe for units with high renown.
     
  3. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    6,172
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    That's a good possibility. Or they could get some sort of bonus for being renowned like "Spearthrower Owl" who was commemorated in inscriptions.
     
    Guandao and Casworon like this.
  4. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,681
    Your whole argument makes no sense. It's not as if there aren't enough good female leaders in history and Firaxis is resorting to poor ones to fill a quota.

    You could at least have used Kristina to back your argument, not Catherine... :rolleyes:

    The only other female leader in the game which is historically pretty meh is Cleopatra, who's mostly a pop culture symbol, and there are other more interesting Egyptian female rulers.
     
  5. Haig

    Haig Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    2,551
    Location:
    Finland
    @Casworon
    I think when talking about new civ abilities being for the base game, it doesnt mean Vanilla Civ 6 but it means base game as in without a Game Mode. For example Maya could have a natural disaster related bonus, but not one related to the Apocalypse Mode stuff like meteor or soothsayer.

    About Maya UU, I think it could replace the slinger but have 2 range and maybe a jungle movement bonus too.
     
  6. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,113
    Location:
    Abroad
    Addressing those criticizing the possible choice of a female Maya leader, Lady Six Sky ("Ix Wak Chan Ajaw") had one of the longest reigns of any Maya monarch, male or female. She was a very successful warrior who also held power during the reign of her (likely) son, Smoking Squirrel, who also went on to accomplish great things militarily (including one attack on a neighboring city-state when he reached age 18). She also was likely adept at navigating local politics, given that after marrying some unnamed Naranjo lord and he died, she continued to hold the reins of power. Indeed, no mention is made of Smoking Squirrel's father in the numerous stelae of her reign and his, so it seems the royal plan for continuity (under the auspices of the Calakmul overlords) was not with the old Naranjo bloodline but Lady Six Sky's.

    Interestingly, today I found out Lady Six Sky was a priestess of Tlaloc: https://books.google.com/books?id=UP-CDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=lady+six+sky+tlaloc&source=bl&ots=2hK4duF-Za&sig=ACfU3U2xe4lFezVp5ovxwr_NX-GOcxAw5w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPiuDVprHpAhU1YjUKHc-dDHMQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=lady six sky tlaloc&f=false (see P. 86, which says:

    Also, on P. 87, the author indicates Lady Six Sky "conducted many of the important ceremonies during the early life of K'ahk'Tiliw Chan Chaak, including Period Ending rituals."

    It seems Lady Six Sky, like Hatshepsut before her, was strongly associated with the use of religion and religious rituals to establish legitimacy (not unusual for Maya rulers, by the way). Lady Six Sky could easily get religious and military bonuses as a result. As Guandao pointed out earlier, we know even less about Amanitore and she is in the game (incidentally the Amanitore Civilopedia entry is one of the most interesting because Firaxis had to sketch out her life from multiple sources, it seems, and they talk about what might have happened, and why, and what is not likely to have happened, and why).

    I lolled.

    Thanks for joining me in discussing the history of Lady Six Sky also! Here's hoping she makes it (though judging by your profile pic, you are also a fan of Pacal?) :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
    Guandao, CivLuvah, Meluhhan and 6 others like this.
  7. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Messages:
    618
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    If the UU is a slinger hopefully they are doing something about the fact the slinger is almost useless beyond being able that they can help you have archers sooner.

    So is Observatory is going to be a UD replacement of Campus rather then a new district? I like when uniques are thing other civ's get some form of later.
     
    yung.carl.jung likes this.
  8. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,256
    But they specifically said that the abilities will work without the expansions. Otherwise, they would have specified that the expansion would be required to use the leader (as they have specified for the relevant game modes and for the alt leader in pack #5).

    So you can be sure that none of the civs and leaders (except for the alt leader in pack 5) will require or use any of the mechanics from Gathering Storm/Rise & Fall.

    Anton even commented that designing the civs to work with only the base game mechanics was fun.
     
  9. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,911
    That doesn't mean that the leaders won't have different bonuses for GS vs. non-GS games, though. Some of the current leaders already do that.
     
  10. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,256
    Fair point but given Anton's comment (which I edited in to my post above), I wouldn't bet on it.
     
  11. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite King

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    984
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually i'm a proponent to the Gran Columbia. But this country is created by Simon Bolivar. WHO IS ALREADY IN GREAT GENERAL SLOT.
    if this civ came to be. then... he will no longer be GG. so who will fill his slot?

    1. Santa Ana
    2. Jose de San Martin
    3. ???
    Actually he/she is gonna came from Latin America. or at least continental america?
    but who? Tecumseh?
     
  12. ferretbacon

    ferretbacon Obsessor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,541
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Texas
    I don't know who it'll be, but it won't be an issue. His retirement ability is just +2 envoys. Not really specific to him like others.
     
  13. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Messages:
    733
    Gonna push back on this a bit. Cleopatra was a polyglot genius who used every single thing she could to advance her interests; if she had not been up against the unstoppable Roman Empire, history would remember her very very differently.
     
    Guandao, 679x, Meluhhan and 3 others like this.
  14. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite King

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    984
    Gender:
    Male
    ^ I often earned him as GG. not a good choice to be honest (and earned when someone else recruited Napoleon Bonaparte whom turned out to be superior)
    So who else in South America or Continental America has equivalent retirement ability to fill his place?
     
  15. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,478
    I could only think "runs away from battles you are winning and loose half your cities" with Santa Ana. Jose de San Martin could be a nice alternative.
     
    Uberfrog likes this.
  16. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite King

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    984
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually I like to see Ramses II returns.
    Cleo did almost use the Roman turmoil to fulfill her ends. But she did a bad choice turning down Octavius. so her potential ally (And lover) becomes her enemy.
    But maybe Octavius is so smart to turn that (mis)fortune to his political ends as well. that made him 'purely committed to Rome' and not one of Cleo's toys.

    While women (And LGBT perhaps) admires Cleo. I'm more on Octavius.
     
  17. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,113
    Location:
    Abroad
    As far as Maya unique units go, I hope it's not a bowman of some sort. Most Mayan warfare was done at close-quarters with melee weapons often made of chert or obsidian, like the Macahuitl. I suspect part of the reason for this is that the Maya jungles didn't make it easy to get uninterrupted projectile fire.

    But the coolest unique Maya unit would be a unit hurling wasp or bee bombs into the enemy (link to Google Books version of Six-Legged Soldiers: Using Insects as Weapons of War by Jeffrey A, Lockwood, published by Oxford University Press). Basically the Maya would seal gourds with wasps or bees, shake them up to anger the bees/wasps inside, then hurl them into the enemy. This weapon came about by 2600 BC.

    Apparently, the Popul Vuh (the Maya religious text about the creation of the universe) tells of traps using bee-infested dummy soldiers too, per Mr. Lockwood's book:
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
    Thenewwwguy, Guandao, 679x and 5 others like this.
  18. Kaan Boztepe

    Kaan Boztepe Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    325
    Gender:
    Male
    if they want to give them an unique improvement maybe chultuns, underground water storage chambers that were lined with lime plaster to prevent water from seeping out
     
    yung.carl.jung likes this.
  19. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite King

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    984
    Gender:
    Male
    Mesoamericans as presented in some other games often had them share similar units. so it is hard to judge what belongs to whom.
    Eagle Warriors and Jaguar Warriors are both Aztec units. but in 'American Conquest', other Mesoamerican civs use them too!
    Maybe give Mayan Jaguars?
     
  20. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,113
    Location:
    Abroad
    Neither belongs to one or the other, I would say. I think the Maya should get bee-grenade warriors, even if Aztecs and Egyptians also used such weapons. Would make for some fun achievement names. :D
     
    Zaarin likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page