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[NFP] Pack1: Maya and Grand Colombia

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Haig, May 11, 2020.

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  1. jozef57

    jozef57 Warlord

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    yes i agree too this seems the way it is going to be
     
  2. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    How about giving the Maya, a version of Austria's ability in Civ5? I've read at least one article about the Snake Dynasty of Calakmul and their marriage alliances with other neighboring kingdoms....
     
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  3. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    If it's Lady Six Sky, the only real thing known about her was she left her home city of Dos Pilas to marry the ruler of Naranjo to form an alliance and take over other city-states. So I hope some sort of city-state alliance/warfare is reflected in her ability, if we get her.
     
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  4. Josephias

    Josephias Emperor

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    Actually, “finca” is just Spanish for “estate”. A term for land/building propierty.

    Hacienda means both the building/land (if of agrary nature) and the business you run in it.
     
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  5. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Right, but my Ethiopian coffee isn't usually labeled with risti. :p
     
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  6. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    We know more about her actually--I posted earlier in this thread, so I'll quote my earlier post below:

    Basically Lady Six Sky was a princess of Dos Pilas sent to Naranjo to establish a dynasty as part of an alliance with Calakmul. While not officially invested as a rule of Naranjo (she always carries the mutal emblem of Dos Pilas), her "arrival" on August 27, 682 AD heralded the creation of a new dynasty in Naranjo of sorts, and she engaged in the usual religious rituals upon her arrival. Like many Mayan kings, she performed key calendar-based rituals and appeared on monuments, including two stelae showing her trampling captives like a warrior-king. These sorts of military portraits of a Maya queen are rarely seen beyond Calakmul portraits. She was queen regnant for around 10 years and then was a de-facto ruler (ala Catherine de Medici or Hatshepsut) on behalf of her (likely) son, the ruler H'ahk Tiliw Chan Chaak, who was crowned at the age of 5 in May 693 AD. Lady Six Sky won numerous battles against cities nearby, the first attack being just 20 days after her son was crowned (there are more details, but I'm avoiding quoting the entirety of the Maya Kings and Queens book on her for copyright reasons). Lady Six Sky's regency may have lasted as long as 59 years, among the longest reigns of any Maya monarch. She died in 741 AD.

    There's more detail in the sources, but you can check out the online sources above and/or the Chronicle of the Maya Kings and Queens book by Simon Martin and Nikolai Grube to find out more.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  7. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

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    She also looks fat in her relief depiction too so I HOPE CIVFANS IS MATURE THIS TIME TO NOT MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT IT LIKE YOU DID WITH AMANITORE (if she's in, that's it)
     
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  8. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    I think that's largely down to the Maya art style (which tends not to be "realistically" proportional). I suspect they will not portray her as large, but who knows.
     
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  9. Ondolindë

    Ondolindë Emperor

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    I hope they call them Estancias as we call them in Bolivia, although that usually has a closer relation to cattle ranches, but not strictly. Finca is also somewhat common here and much more in other South American countries. So both would be great. Haciendas are not that common now, at least in my country, although they were in colonial times and throughout the area and, of course Mexico, due our shared Spanish roots and influence. But all three have become, to a certain degree, interchangeable in South America.


    On another note, could one of the moderators change the title of this thread from GRAND to GRAN, please? Thank you much.

    Edit: took out unnecessary quote
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  10. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Yes I've seen that before and admit that it doesn't tell too much more other than she did engage in ritual activities and was a regent for her son (which not sure how much we know about him so hard to do an ability around that also.
    Since we are about to see them I'll post my Maya idea that I've had for a while and want to know what everyone else thinks. I hope we get something similar to this and nothing to do with the apocalyptic mode.

    Leader: Lady Six Sky

    Capital: Sa’aal (Naranjo)

    Agenda: Ajaw- Likes civilizations who engage with city-states by becoming their suzerain or conquering them. Dislikes civilizations that do not engage with city-states and leave them alone.

    LA: New Dynasty- +10 Combat strength when attacking city-states and their units who are at war with one of your allied city-states. Conquered city states when taken provide a boost towards faith and science and a free monument. Gain extra yields for trade routes to city states you are the suzerain of.

    UA: Ahau Can Mai (High Priesthood)- Holy Site specialists provide science based on mountain adjacencies. Temples can hold a great work of writing slot as well as a relic and both provide science once Recorded History is learned.

    UU: Hul’che (replaces Slinger) Has a range attack of 2 and killing a unit provides +50 faith equal to the combat strength. Upgrades into crossbowmen.

    UD: I had in mind a unique Holy Site district but it looks like we are getting a "Caracol" campus district now, which makes sense because it was a science city-state.
    The Civ bonus that I gave them means that they now would prioritize both districts instead of just the Holy Site.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  11. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    I think a slinger replacement UU is likely, but I'm not sure this one works. A slinger has a ranged CS of 15 (an archer is 25). A slinger can barely put a dent into an AI warrior on deity. How many units are you actually going to kill with one outside of maybe an early barbarian scout or two? I'd rather have the archers TBH.

    If we're getting a slinger UU, it's going to need something more. Slingers are just in a weird place IMO. A free promotion would help them a lot (could take either +7 against land units or +10 while garrisoned), but I'm not even sure that's enough to make them all that attractive. Not sure what the answer is to be honest.
     
  12. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Perhaps replacing the slinger with greater ranged strength (nearly that of an archer), plus no movement penalty in woods and rainforest. The increased strength will make it cheaper to upgrade to an archer, but you won't really be rushing to get archers with such a fine slinger replacement. It will allow you to delay that tech in favor of others. The Maya will probably have a Woods/Rainforest start bias.
     
  13. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    I borrowed this monster from the library to learn about Gran Colombia.

    Its 900+ pages so you see I am very very smart and from now on the premier expert on South America on Civfanatics.


    20200513_084316.jpg
     
  14. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    If we go on with this slinger replacement, I hope they do not repeat the Cree mistake and make it so costly it becomes a hard choice to build them
     
  15. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Sorry for being a bit cross on this, but other than being a woman, is there any other notable reason why one would pick Lady Six Sky as a leader? Is she known for any particular achievements or advancements?
     
  16. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    Please no mountain adjacency bonus for the Maya. Yucatan is flat. Their starting bias will probably favorite: jungle, plains, lakes, volcanos.
    I think their unique Campus district should give you science boost each time natural disaster in city border trigger and have adjacency bonus from holy sites, governor districts and city centers.
    On top of that I can imagine faster access to jungle chopping and larger bonus from jungle chops, but two times bigger chance for drought disaster from chopping. That would be fun for play and explainable historically.
     
  17. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    I doubt they'll have anything in any of their bonuses that relates to natural disasters, as they are not listed as requiring GS to play.
     
  18. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    Egyptians Iteru has a disaster-related ability (buildings are immune to damage from floods) So maybe it would be additional bonus if you have GS. Or maybe disasters will be now a part of vanilla (but without climate change mechanic)
    I would really like to see this engine management -> chop jungle -> trigger drought -> grain science bonus but suffer growth.
    And as a science CIv it would open opportunities for interesting decision which governor to pick first. Magnus (bonus from chops), Pingala (science bonus), or Liang (infrastructure immune to disasters).
     
  19. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    Lady Six Sky, or to give her actual name Wak Chan Ajaw, seems to have been a remarkably powerful woman for the Classical Maya period.

    As documented in stelae at Naranjo, Wak Chan Ajaw was a princess sent from Dos Pilas to establish a new royal dynasty that would return the rebellious city-state to the Calakmul-Dos Pilas sphere of influence. This job would traditionally have been given to a second-son, not a daughter.

    When she got to Naranjo she appears to have been regent while her son came of age, and is depicted performing traditionally male roles, in a blood-letting ritual and astride a captive as a warrior king. During her regency, Naranjo won important victories against Tikal and Ucanal.

    Maya rulers are tricky because their histories have to be pieced together from the archaeological evidence and surviving glyphs, but the evidence we have suggests she was a remarkable figure.
     
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  20. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    I just want to add to Uberfrog's comment. Amanitore has the same exact issue as Lady Six Sky. We don't know too much about the specifics of her reign or her accomplishments, yet Firaxis chose her to lead Nubia in the game. Archaeological evidence has suggested Amanitore was a powerful queen in her own right. Also the Meroitic writing that the Nubians used at the time isn't probably understood or completely deciphered, making it more difficult to read than Mayan glyphs, which Mayanologists can understand more better.
     
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