PAE VI Patch 6.5 and higher (latest 07. Feb. 2024)
- Thread starter pie_at
- Start date
mynystry
jaguar warrior from hell
It is the Large Europe scenario. I looked at the military advisor and the settler is not there, but still I am not allowed to build another one.
Something that happened few turns before that happened was that I entered a goodie hut and got an emmigrant, do you think it has something to do with the settler's dissapearance?
Soulmate
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 167
Hey guys, still loving what you are doing here.
Always coming back to this fascinating mod and constantly amazed by the new features! I just dig how economy and immersion focused PAE is.
It's amazing to see how AI can actually use trade caravans now, just WOW!
Can you help me untangle a few points please:
1) How can I change the STR of Lancers/Numidian cav/Prodromoi etc. ?
- I feel like 12 STR is a bit too excessive, especially if many elite upgrades have STR 10 or equal (btw, why was the change so sudden?)
- it doesn't feel well thought out, considering that upgrades are still weaker than the basic version... Not to mention you don't really get better troops later into the tree untill cataphracts
2) Is there any pattern to the development of different civs?
- For example: Romans are ALWAYS very weak, regardless of their resources, buildings available and political situation.(I attached an example of my latest game where rome struggles to keep 6 pop capital in classical era). It is an old screenshot, currently they are literally the worst civ by score, even behind some barbarian lowlives
- On the other hand Egypt and greeks are almost always on top. Egypt specifically just goes wild with their economy and speedruns tech tree, then conquers some greek religion cities and also starts stealing hellenic wonders/cults which boosts their reserach even further.
- To be honest most of the games you only have 1 real rival in the face of Egypt, while the rest of the civs struggle to have cities with more than 10 pops. And that does not depend on their available resources or food at all...
- I understand that there might be a lot of factors like religoous migration and wars, but to be frank it's a rare case and mostly civs just SUCK at developing. Why is that? It's not like the AI doesn't know how(see Egypt example), but sometimes they just refuse to grow out of their 9-10 pop cities. And the only civs that are actually competent can grow economy to bigger pops
- Is there any pattern to this? Can I fix it in any capacity? I thought that the problem was the difference in food vs egypt, but after distributing more resources to everyone it became apparent that some civs are just BAD at playing and will forever be stuck at 6-10 pop
Thank you for this great mod and for alll the answers in advance!
Cheers
Always coming back to this fascinating mod and constantly amazed by the new features! I just dig how economy and immersion focused PAE is.
It's amazing to see how AI can actually use trade caravans now, just WOW!
Can you help me untangle a few points please:
1) How can I change the STR of Lancers/Numidian cav/Prodromoi etc. ?
- I feel like 12 STR is a bit too excessive, especially if many elite upgrades have STR 10 or equal (btw, why was the change so sudden?)
- it doesn't feel well thought out, considering that upgrades are still weaker than the basic version... Not to mention you don't really get better troops later into the tree untill cataphracts
2) Is there any pattern to the development of different civs?
- For example: Romans are ALWAYS very weak, regardless of their resources, buildings available and political situation.(I attached an example of my latest game where rome struggles to keep 6 pop capital in classical era). It is an old screenshot, currently they are literally the worst civ by score, even behind some barbarian lowlives
- On the other hand Egypt and greeks are almost always on top. Egypt specifically just goes wild with their economy and speedruns tech tree, then conquers some greek religion cities and also starts stealing hellenic wonders/cults which boosts their reserach even further.
- To be honest most of the games you only have 1 real rival in the face of Egypt, while the rest of the civs struggle to have cities with more than 10 pops. And that does not depend on their available resources or food at all...
- I understand that there might be a lot of factors like religoous migration and wars, but to be frank it's a rare case and mostly civs just SUCK at developing. Why is that? It's not like the AI doesn't know how(see Egypt example), but sometimes they just refuse to grow out of their 9-10 pop cities. And the only civs that are actually competent can grow economy to bigger pops
- Is there any pattern to this? Can I fix it in any capacity? I thought that the problem was the difference in food vs egypt, but after distributing more resources to everyone it became apparent that some civs are just BAD at playing and will forever be stuck at 6-10 pop
Thank you for this great mod and for alll the answers in advance!
Cheers
Attachments
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Emigrant: no, emigrants don't count as settler and they can't found cities (they can join cities or village improvements)
The only way not to train a settler is if you don't have the colonization TECH. Some civs in scenarios are city states and possess TECH_CITY_STATE. Those civs are not allowed to research colonization.
so very strange...
Thank you very much , Soulmate!
1) yes, you are able to change the strength of units in ...\Mods\PieAncientEuropeVI\Assets\XML\Units\CIV4UnitInfos.xml
every unit has the tag iCombat, eg. <iCombat>5</iCombat>. if you change xml files, you won't see the changes during game, you have to reload CIV(PAE).
In the upcoming patch those upgrade "bugs" are fixed. and you will now see, what kind of unit you can upgrade with this kind of promoting units in PAE.
The reason, why mounted units get that high combat value in PAE is because warfare had changed to a cavalry warfare in late iron age. Armies without cav were lost. at least in open terrain. that's why in PAE on the one hand cavs are very strong in open terrain but easy opponents in dense areas (cities, forests, swamps) by having -50% strength there.
The next weapon that could be a serious opponent to cavalry was the helbarde, which get used from the 14th century on.
In the German forum we had already a discussion there about this... perhaps I'll add a foot lancier in the late era, but I would prefer to see this option in a mediaval age.
2) this is easy explained. Yes, the first thing a strong CIV needs is territory. On your screen I can see that the Romans get crushed by the Etruscans.
If you give Romans more room for expansion they can do it. The scenario builder should have checked this. But often the intention is that the Romans get experienced by war with the Etruscans, overrun them and get a strong empire. But this plan doesn't always work.
for the cultural part... yes, Egypt is heavy. but on the other hand, they don't have a strong army later on. every CIV in PAE is different to play. As it is in real life. I like the different handicaps between those CIVs. And if you want to play balanced civs in multiplayer, then you can choose equal CIVs for that. as I would say equal civs are STRONG: Egypt, Greece, Romans, Carthagians, Assyrians/Babylonians,... or MIDDLE: Nordic civs, Iberians, Phoenicians,.... or even HARD: Berbers, Numidians, Scyths,...
Soulmate
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 167
Forgot to clarify if the changes to unit stats can affect the savegame?
On the topic of weak AI: Tbh I still don't understand how territory can affect the city pop if the city has full culture reach without any impediments. I could see how the war and pillaging may affect that, but it's not the case for Rome.
Perhaps an argument can be made that they don't have enough happines/health due to lack of resources but i've checked and it's also not the case.
I like how smaller civs are able to compete and advance in many other mods, not sure why PAE specifically is lacking these smaller ballsy civs. It's not like there's no historical precedents(Babylon, Tyrus, Carthage, Greek Colonies, Rome itself, etc...)
But regardless... My point was not about Rome specifically, they are just an example I've seen over dozen of games in different game versions. This part of the world NEVER develops for some reason. Only Carthage can be confident 3rd/4th place most of the times.
Let's take my current game. Out of 32 civs only 2 apart from the player have city pops higher than 11(Egypt and Sumer). It's middle of the classical age mind you and many civs have A LOT of territory and cities.
It doesn't matter what kind of units they have at any stage, since their economy is miserable they can't build any meaningful army so the player can literally overwhelm them with numbers(russian doctrine).
I am just trying to find a pattern and understand what hinders them so much? Even the civs with ideal resources and appropriate culture(like Persia) just straight up refuse to grow their cities and economy...
I would LOVE to see a strong Rome at least once...
(Forgot to add that the difficulty is Emperor)
=======
On another note: since I am a single player a cool trick I found is to enable cheatcodes and just switch civs and then try to take on my own empire.
You can do it by pressing Alt+Z
In case anyone reading might need it
It was not easy to find if this feature works at all so hope that helps someone.
P.S.: I can't imagine how fun it is to play multiplayer PAE, but I like to play slow and enjoy the process/environment so that's not really up for multiplayyer ...
On the topic of weak AI: Tbh I still don't understand how territory can affect the city pop if the city has full culture reach without any impediments. I could see how the war and pillaging may affect that, but it's not the case for Rome.
Perhaps an argument can be made that they don't have enough happines/health due to lack of resources but i've checked and it's also not the case.
I like how smaller civs are able to compete and advance in many other mods, not sure why PAE specifically is lacking these smaller ballsy civs. It's not like there's no historical precedents(Babylon, Tyrus, Carthage, Greek Colonies, Rome itself, etc...)
But regardless... My point was not about Rome specifically, they are just an example I've seen over dozen of games in different game versions. This part of the world NEVER develops for some reason. Only Carthage can be confident 3rd/4th place most of the times.
Let's take my current game. Out of 32 civs only 2 apart from the player have city pops higher than 11(Egypt and Sumer). It's middle of the classical age mind you and many civs have A LOT of territory and cities.
It doesn't matter what kind of units they have at any stage, since their economy is miserable they can't build any meaningful army so the player can literally overwhelm them with numbers(russian doctrine).
I am just trying to find a pattern and understand what hinders them so much? Even the civs with ideal resources and appropriate culture(like Persia) just straight up refuse to grow their cities and economy...
I would LOVE to see a strong Rome at least once...
(Forgot to add that the difficulty is Emperor)
=======
On another note: since I am a single player a cool trick I found is to enable cheatcodes and just switch civs and then try to take on my own empire.
You can do it by pressing Alt+Z
In case anyone reading might need it
It was not easy to find if this feature works at all so hope that helps someone.P.S.: I can't imagine how fun it is to play multiplayer PAE, but I like to play slow and enjoy the process/environment so that's not really up for multiplayyer ...
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Changes in XML on save games only have effect on new created units.
Yes PAE got easier and easier during developement because player hated the way it was. It was too difficult, it wasn't winable on deity, and the main reason was: we want to play to have fun, to relax after work and don't want to stress us.
Romans are just like all other civs until late Iron Age. Then they have the chance to start over. In my test games, Rome always was strong enough to get at least one vassal. But yes, Rome needs time, because their units come very late.... and this is difficult in CIV... but giving them overhelming power.... this would also be frustrated when you know, that in the end, Rome always wins the game....
Yes PAE got easier and easier during developement because player hated the way it was. It was too difficult, it wasn't winable on deity, and the main reason was: we want to play to have fun, to relax after work and don't want to stress us.
Romans are just like all other civs until late Iron Age. Then they have the chance to start over. In my test games, Rome always was strong enough to get at least one vassal. But yes, Rome needs time, because their units come very late.... and this is difficult in CIV... but giving them overhelming power.... this would also be frustrated when you know, that in the end, Rome always wins the game....
Soulmate
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 167
I see, thank you for the clarification! It's a shame people found it to be too difficult, I think I enjoyed every single version of PAE =(
I'm also just a casual "chill after work" player. Hence why I never play on Deity, because it's incompatible with that mindset imo.
But still it's more enjoyable when the game does provides a challenge! After all, it's the core mechanic of any game - to overcome obstacles.
I still don't understand what are the contributing factors to the Civ success? Why is Egypt always so far ahead, while other civs don't do that even with similar resources?
I understand that there's a huge factor of religion, civ buildings and cults(cult of Isis is op), but at the very least that should not affect the ability of the city to grow?
Why do the civs with plenty of food, spare happiness/health and with present state religion look like they are hard blocked from growing beyond 9-10 pop?
And then Egypt conquers these same cities and they blow into 18 pop megapolices in an instant.
Sorry if this conversation sounds a bit demanding. I don't question the direction of the mod at all(and enjoying it a lot!)
I just want to understand what are the contributing factors and see if I can address any of these in my games, because I'm bored of always playing in the same half of the world(Middle east)... Otherwise there's just no challenge at all if you go west or north.
I'm also just a casual "chill after work" player. Hence why I never play on Deity, because it's incompatible with that mindset imo.
But still it's more enjoyable when the game does provides a challenge! After all, it's the core mechanic of any game - to overcome obstacles.
I still don't understand what are the contributing factors to the Civ success? Why is Egypt always so far ahead, while other civs don't do that even with similar resources?
I understand that there's a huge factor of religion, civ buildings and cults(cult of Isis is op), but at the very least that should not affect the ability of the city to grow?
Why do the civs with plenty of food, spare happiness/health and with present state religion look like they are hard blocked from growing beyond 9-10 pop?
And then Egypt conquers these same cities and they blow into 18 pop megapolices in an instant.
Sorry if this conversation sounds a bit demanding. I don't question the direction of the mod at all(and enjoying it a lot!)
I just want to understand what are the contributing factors and see if I can address any of these in my games, because I'm bored of always playing in the same half of the world(Middle east)... Otherwise there's just no challenge at all if you go west or north.
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Egypt was able to harvest twice a year thanks to the flooding of the Nile. It is not for nothing that Egypt was called the granary of Europe.
In CIV the Nile consists largely of flood plains. This is the most productive way to get food in CIV. Ergo, cities can grow faster and larger than those of other areas.
Didn't you try advanced scenarios? Or perhaps random maps? Also the Creation-map makes fun.
In CIV the Nile consists largely of flood plains. This is the most productive way to get food in CIV. Ergo, cities can grow faster and larger than those of other areas.
Didn't you try advanced scenarios? Or perhaps random maps? Also the Creation-map makes fun.
brettschmitt
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2019
- Messages
- 153
I recognized that weak AI Civs often just need another leader. E.g. on my maps Persia was allways far behind, until I gave them Kyrus as leader... suddenly they were crushing everything, taking all neighbours out or as vassals, etc... Actually, I had to give them less recources and worse land to cool them down again
So the leader's personality makes a huge difference sometimes...
[EDIT] Same for Rome. Since they are lead by Mark Anton, they are getting along...
So the leader's personality makes a huge difference sometimes...
[EDIT] Same for Rome. Since they are lead by Mark Anton, they are getting along...
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Red Boxer
Prince
Not sure if there is a better spot for bug reports, but i ran into this very repeatable one...
Hi Red, this was bugfixes in 6.16 I think...
I still finished a new patch 6.17 with some more bugfixes and lots of new helping texts for a betteand easier gameplay (veteran ugrades, domestic advisor)
Please feel free to patch to the new version. It is not save game compatible, sorry ;(
Version 6.17:
-) Updates in CIVIII_RiseOfRome scenario
-) Updates in Peloponnes scenario
-) New building: hippodrome (about 200 AD)
-) Updated stadium (correct ancient Greek model by Jarmrik & hrochland)
-) Updated domestic advisor
-) Model for pearls (thx to Mardonius)
-) animal resources only move on neutral terrain (no unit on plot)
-) national wonder Wind kiln site 50% bonus for gold, silver, copper (instead 100%)
-) bugfixes (PAE_City, CvMainInterface)
-) pigeon mail requires dovecote
-) fur can now be discoverd in camps
-) Test: Rams UNITAI_ATTACK_CITY -> UNITAI_RESERVE
-) unit healer for all (Seer, Brahman, Druid, Shaman)
-) Trade units can now spread bonus resources too
-) Religion spreading update. Spreading neighbour cities only. Christians additional spread cities via trade routes after 44 turns.
-) bugfixes: renegade city, provincial city rebellion
-) bugfix in First Punic War and Iberian Conquest scenario
-) Companion and war dogs can now use the wedge formation
-) Courthouses iMaintenanceModifier -25%/-50% instead of -50%/-75%
-) Picture (movie tag) when building a gladiator school
-) New: only gladiators who lose their unreliability in battle can found a gladiator school in cities (otherwise it was too easy, since they can be trained in cities with a gladiator school)
-) Ring dike (Nordic special building, removes swamps) not only for coastal cities
-) bugfixed Thing meetings
-) Option in MainInterface.py: de/activating units as gifts (COMMAND_GIFT) for multiplayer games
I still finished a new patch 6.17 with some more bugfixes and lots of new helping texts for a betteand easier gameplay (veteran ugrades, domestic advisor)
Please feel free to patch to the new version. It is not save game compatible, sorry ;(
Version 6.17:
-) Updates in CIVIII_RiseOfRome scenario
-) Updates in Peloponnes scenario
-) New building: hippodrome (about 200 AD)
-) Updated stadium (correct ancient Greek model by Jarmrik & hrochland)
-) Updated domestic advisor
-) Model for pearls (thx to Mardonius)
-) animal resources only move on neutral terrain (no unit on plot)
-) national wonder Wind kiln site 50% bonus for gold, silver, copper (instead 100%)
-) bugfixes (PAE_City, CvMainInterface)
-) pigeon mail requires dovecote
-) fur can now be discoverd in camps
-) Test: Rams UNITAI_ATTACK_CITY -> UNITAI_RESERVE
-) unit healer for all (Seer, Brahman, Druid, Shaman)
-) Trade units can now spread bonus resources too
-) Religion spreading update. Spreading neighbour cities only. Christians additional spread cities via trade routes after 44 turns.
-) bugfixes: renegade city, provincial city rebellion
-) bugfix in First Punic War and Iberian Conquest scenario
-) Companion and war dogs can now use the wedge formation
-) Courthouses iMaintenanceModifier -25%/-50% instead of -50%/-75%
-) Picture (movie tag) when building a gladiator school
-) New: only gladiators who lose their unreliability in battle can found a gladiator school in cities (otherwise it was too easy, since they can be trained in cities with a gladiator school)
-) Ring dike (Nordic special building, removes swamps) not only for coastal cities
-) bugfixed Thing meetings
-) Option in MainInterface.py: de/activating units as gifts (COMMAND_GIFT) for multiplayer games
OkForget my post. I did a mistake in the installation process. It works fine now
For new players: just replace the patch files with the PAE files (or with the files of a new PAE VI installation) and everything should work.
look out for the correct folder structure.
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