Pakistan and democracy

[Kosez]

So, Musharaf declared state of emregency. Lawyers have been arrested because of raising their voice publicly. Constitution is no longer obligatory. Musharaf is acting more and more like a dictator. Like Saddam Husein. Remember, Bush invaded Iraq because of WMDs, Pakistan has nukes; Bush invaded because Saddam was a dictator, Musharaf is going down the same path. Situation in Pakistan is not so very different than that in Iraq 5 years ago. In fact, I do believe Pakistan is more of a threat to the World than Iraq ever was.

So, why doesn't Bush do the same with Pakistan as he did with Iraq?

P.S.: Are there any oil reserves in Pakistan?

 

[mythmonster2]

I, in all my 12 year old wisdom, think it's precisely BECAUSE of Pakistan's nukes. (P.S, I am Pakistani, and am personally sad to see it going down this path.)

 

[azzaman333]

Because the USA is already in Iraq and can't just get up and leave to "fix" Pakistan.

 

[Masquerouge]

Let's wait and see, but Musharaf is far from being the dictator Hussein was, and the current events could very well end his regime.

 

[Dubai Vol]

Living in Dubai for a decade may not seem relevant, but there are lots of Pakistanis here, so I have a clue about Pakistani politics.

First off, you have to understand how corrupt Pakistan is. No, you would never understand how corrupt Pakistan is. Just take is as given: imagine the most corrupt government ever, and multiply it by a thousand, and you still don't understand how corrupt Pakistan is.

Everyone who know anything knows that Musharrif is trying to stop the corruption, but between the corrupt lawyers and the western idea that he must be evil because he took over in a military coup, Pakistan is doomed to revert to corruption.

Personally, I think Musharrif should have just let the supreme court depose him, and let Pakistan get on with being a cesspool.

 

[Arwon]

If ever there were a case which required a bit of cynical realpolitik, the subcontinent is it. There's not much that can be done... diplomacy is always a game played within the very deep grooves carved out by Events. You don't need to support everything somebody does to keep open channels with them.

It'd probably be a good idea for people to stop blathering on about Iran being a HUGE THREAT, though. So far nobody in the press or the popular political sphere has really noticed the disconnect but someone might notice and ask questions which might make the Bush administration look, I dunno, less than credible on the foreign policy front.

 

[Ecofarm]

It'd probably be a good idea for people to stop blathering on about Iran being a HUGE THREAT, though. So far nobody in the press or the popular political sphere has really noticed the disconnect but someone might notice and ask questions which might make the Bush administration look, I dunno, less than credible on the foreign policy front.

UNITED NATIONS - The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, Wednesday compared the threat from Iran’s nuclear programs to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11849446/

“The annihilation of the Zionist regime will come... Israel must be wiped off the map... And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism”

“They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets.”

“I officially announce that Iran has joined countries with nuclear technology.”

-Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad...

Threats against the United States and Israel by Iranian President Ahmadinejad – coupled with advances in the Iranian nuclear weapons program, support for terror, and resistance to internationalnegotiations on its nuclear program – demonstrate that Iran is a security threat to our nation that requires high caliber intelligence support. The seriousness of the Iranian threat has been amplified by the recent rocket attacks against Israel by the Iranian-backed Lebanese terrorist group Hezbollah, which, according to press accounts, has received as many as 10,000 rockets from Iran.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...pdf+iran+is+a+threat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte provided his assessment in his 2006 Annual Threat Report that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons.

America's intelligence agencies have also assessed the following about the Iranian threat:

• Iran has conducted a clandestine uranium enrichment program for nearly two decades in violation of its International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) safeguards agreement, anddespite its claims to the contrary, Iran is seeking nuclear weapons. The U.S. Intelligence Community believes that Tehran probably has not yet produced or acquired the fissile material (weapons-grade nuclear fuel) needed to produce a nuclear weapon; Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte has stated that Iran will not be “in a position to have a nuclear weapon” until “sometime between the beginning of the next decade and the middle of the next decade”.6

• Iran likely has an offensive chemical weapons research and development capability.7

• Iran probably has an offensive biological weapons program.8

• Iran has the largest inventory of ballistic missiles in the Middle East. The U.S. IntelligenceCommunity has raised the concern that Tehran may integrate nuclear weapons into its ballistic missiles.9

• Iran provides funding, training, weapons, rockets, and other material support to terrorist groups in Lebanon, the Palestinian Territories, and elsewhere.

• Elements of the Iranian national security apparatus are actively supporting the insurgency in Iraq.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...pdf+iran+is+a+threat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

Washington - Iran's involvement in terrorism, repression of its people and pursuit of nuclear weapons is a 'very dangerous mix' making the Islamic state the largest threat to US interests around the world, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Wednesday.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1368302.php

Tony Blair has said Iran poses a "major strategic threat" to the Middle East and is "deliberately causing" problems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6172347.stm

PARIS (AFP) — Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Monday that France and Israel share "identical" views on the threat posed by Iran's nuclear programme following talks in Paris with President Nicolas Sarkozy.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g_74YQLtbfBsHrZI8ItJLNKGCMQ

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday described Iranian nuclear weapons as "a strategic threat."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/911848.html


Yea, ALL the world's leaders are wrong and you are right. We should just pretend that the threat doesn't exist at all. Praise Allah.

 

[azzaman333]

I wouldn't be surprised if all the world's leaders were wrong. They all seem pretty stupid to me.

 

[Ecofarm]

Such an opinion explains why some people are the leader of nothing - orcs of terrorist apology.

 

[BasketCase]

So, why doesn't Bush do the same with Pakistan as he did with Iraq?

There are a couple of very big differences. As far as I know, Pakistan never used gas weapons on civilians. Or tried to invade anybody besides India. Or tried to build biological weapons (building nukes is a damn good idea as a deterrent; building every kind of WMD you can, just for the sake of being able to make stuff go splat, is just *&@!?#ing stupid).

Musharraf is no saint, and I wouldn't shed a tear if he was deposed (and, in my opinion, he should be). But he's got a long way to go before he becomes a Saddam Hussein.

 

[amadeus]

Musharaf is far from being the dictator Hussein was, and the current events could very well end his regime.

This topic...

Spoiler :

 

[Arwon]

Pakistan is, objectively, a bigger threat to peace than Iran. The fact that a bunch of posturing dignitaries don't want to say that doesn't make it false.

 

[Rambuchan]

Ecofarm: Man! You manage to get your Iran stick out everywhere you can! For determination at least, you should be applauded. Pity that the list of people you roll out enjoy very little respect around the world, aside from amongst the warmongering, neo-con fanbase that is. I mean, seriously, look at your list:

John Bolton ~ Forced to step down as UN Ambassador for being a loudmouth, destructive, bully of a diplomat. Symbolic of the widely resented attitude of the neocons toward the UN. Despised by even the closest ally of the US in the UN, Britain, whose Deputy Secretary General publicly denounced him and thereby laid the foundations for his resignation.

John Negroponte ~ U.S. Ambassador to Honduras from 1981-1985; a period during which the U.S. military aid to Honduras grew from $5 million to nearly $100 million, and more than $200 million in economic aid, making Honduras the largest aid recipient in the region. At the time Mr. Negroponte was in Honduras, Honduras was a military dictatorship. Kidnapping, rape, torture and executions of dissidents was rampant. Later, and here the wisdom of the neocons really shines bright, he became Ambassador in Iraq. Yes, a Jewish Ambassador to an Arab country, representing an invading superpower. Reeeaaal smart! His stint at the UN was largely to shield cries of Israeli crimes against the Palestinians. I think it's safe to say that democracy and human rights were not his primary concerns.

Tony Blair ~ Bush's invasion poodle. About whom it was revealed, by the Head of MI6, in a Downing Street memo (known as the "smoking gun memo") was pushing for a situation in which: "intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy". The policy being to invade Iraq because Bush had 'already made his mind up'. Lied to the British Parliament as a result with his sexed up Iraq dossier and eventually lost the trust of the British electorate and stepped down.

Ehud Olmert ~ Lebanon Invasion Bungler. Up for corruption charges. Enjoys little respect in Israel.

Vladimir Putin ~ I'm amazed to see you quoting this 'anti-democratic tyrant'. I suppose it's worth it when it suits you. He isn't calling for an invasion of Iran though.

 

[Ecofarm]

Ok, how about you show me a (free) world leader who does not think that Iran is a threat?

Someone other than JoeBob@CFC OT

And no, the obviously senile Jimmy Carter does not count.

I've already shown that many of the free world's leaders consider Iran to be a serious threat, now here's something from the general populace:

WASHINGTON (AFP) - People in the United States see Iran as by far the greatest threat to world stability, with China a distant second, according to a Gallup poll released Wednesday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071031/ts_alt_afp/usiranchinapolitics_071031213649

So, every free world leader I can find a quote on thinks Iran is a serious threat and so does the general public of the US.

I realize that you are smarter than everyone, but how about a couple citations supporting the position that Iran is not a threat.


ps. Please spare me the commondreams.org and moveon.org blogger citations.

 

[HannibalBarka]

...
Yea, ALL the world's leaders are wrong and you are right. We should just pretend that the threat doesn't exist at all. Praise Allah.

The vast majority of the World's leaders do no give a rat's ass abour Iran and its nukes, go and ask the leaders of Honduras, Costa Rica, Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, Chile, Tanzania, Congo, Togo, Senegal, etc.... and they'll tell you "Sorry, we don't care, we have more important thing to deal with", so stop citing Negroponte and Bolton and calling them "All world Ledaers" when they don't represents any body but themselves

 

[Arwon]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - People in the United States see Iran as by far the greatest threat to world stability, with China a distant second, according to a Gallup poll released Wednesday.

That's precisely the friggin' problem. Why is it so easy for leaders to manipulate opinion in this way?

 

[holy king]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - People in the United States see Iran as by far the greatest threat to world stability, with China a distant second, according to a Gallup poll released Wednesday.

i guess people in the us get told that iran is a threat for world stabiltiy every day...
even if they managed to build nukes, what do you think they would do with them? attack the us? threaten turkey or irak to take over their territory?

 

[RedRalph]

Ecofarm: Man! You manage to get your Iran stick out everywhere you can! For determination at least, you should be applauded. Pity that the list of people you roll out enjoy very little respect around the world, aside from amongst the warmongering, neo-con fanbase that is. I mean, seriously, look at your list:

John Bolton ~ Forced to step down as UN Ambassador for being a loudmouth, destructive, bully of a diplomat. Symbolic of the widely resented attitude of the neocons toward the UN. Despised by even the closest ally of the US in the UN, Britain, whose Deputy Secretary General publicly denounced him and thereby laid the foundations for his resignation.

John Negroponte ~ U.S. Ambassador to Honduras from 1981-1985; a period during which the U.S. military aid to Honduras grew from $5 million to nearly $100 million, and more than $200 million in economic aid, making Honduras the largest aid recipient in the region. At the time Mr. Negroponte was in Honduras, Honduras was a military dictatorship. Kidnapping, rape, torture and executions of dissidents was rampant. Later, and here the wisdom of the neocons really shines bright, he became Ambassador in Iraq. Yes, a Jewish Ambassador to an Arab country, representing an invading superpower. Reeeaaal smart! His stint at the UN was largely to shield cries of Israeli crimes against the Palestinians. I think it's safe to say that democracy and human rights were not his primary concerns.

Tony Blair ~ Bush's invasion poodle. About whom it was revealed, by the Head of MI6, in a Downing Street memo (known as the "smoking gun memo") was pushing for a situation in which: "intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy". The policy being to invade Iraq because Bush had 'already made his mind up'. Lied to the British Parliament as a result with his sexed up Iraq dossier and eventually lost the trust of the British electorate and stepped down.

Ehud Olmert ~ Lebanon Invasion Bungler. Up for corruption charges. Enjoys little respect in Israel.

Vladimir Putin ~ I'm amazed to see you quoting this 'anti-democratic tyrant'. I suppose it's worth it when it suits you. He isn't calling for an invasion of Iran though.

Good stuff man. I personally know for a fact Iran will never threaten my nation. I'm not threatened by it. I suspect no country in all of Africa or South America is threatened by it. I dont think much of Europe realistically thinks Iran will ever attack their soil. I think the only Americans the Iranian govt will ever harm is the ones who may attack it in future, or the ones next door in Iraq, which not-many non americans will shed tears over.

Ask yourself this: How many countries fear being attacked by America vs. how many countries fear being attacked by Iran? Countries attacked by Iran in the last 100 years: 0. America: Not sure, but I think its over 20. Weapons of mass destruction helpd by america: tens of thousands. by Iran: 0. Relative military strength: americas superiority is probably so large as to be incalculable vs Iran.

Ahmedinijhad is a racist lunatic, but hes not going to attack anyone. anyone who thinks he will attack Israel is an idiot. If he did, Iran would cease to exist in a matter of hours. Hes not suicidal.

 

[Ecofarm]

so stop citing Negroponte and Bolton and calling them "All world Ledaers" when they don't represents any body but themselves

I also cited the president of France, Russia, and Israel. Do they not represent anyone?

 

[Gelion]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - People in the United States see Iran as by far the greatest threat to world stability, with China a distant second, according to a Gallup poll released Wednesday.

Just like Iraq was 4 years ago?

On the record I am strongly against Iran getting nuclear weapons.