Paladin/druid/eidolon

[mazirian]

paladin : order/empyrean (law/wisdom)

druid : followers of leaves/kilmorph (nature/earth)

eidolon : ashen veil/octoppuss overlord (chaos/daemons)

cassiel don't needs more powerfull late units.
perhaps adds some ice units to auric ulvin .

this way , we could have evil and good druid for the fol/kilmorph civ , more accurate than OO luchiurp druid .

neutrality of druid is more concern about law/chaos than good/evil IMO .

 

[it-ogo]

I think it is worse then now.

Neutrality of druids is universal. In ffh good-evil extrema are Heaven and Hell while druids represent balancing of the living world between them.

 

[daladinn]

umm , the OO typically cant make eidolons also.

paladins require good and eidolons require evil iirc

 

[Ekolite]

I actually agree wit the OP, I really dislike how it works at the moment. It is annoying that, playing as the lurchip, I can build paladins which are completely against their theme, and to get the awesome dwarf druids I have to juggle OO.

I would prefer every civ to have their own unique high level unit and to take out the stupid druid-eidolon-paladin thing. A special unit for each civ could really add something to the game and they could be varying in strength to give a little extra balance too, for eg. The amurites 'standard' unit would be a druid - completely counter flavour. I would much prefer them to have a kind of elder mage type thing. They would be similiar to archmage but with higer strength and probably something extra - maybe twincast.

Another example is the elves - there are 3 elven leaders, 2 neutral, one good, the neutral ones can build druids, the good one can build ridiculously couner flavoursome paladins - and again have to juggle OO to correct that. The Ljosalfar are the *only* civ that should have druids. The khazad could probably have the dwarf druids still - although maybe with a name change. Runekeeper for eg.

 

[Ecofarm]

I like that anyone can seek a balance in nature. I find it quite right that they are available usually with three religions:

Trees
Oceans
Mountains

I dislike that I must go through empyr to get bals druids.

 

[Ekolite]

Yes but the druids aren't related to the sea, otherwise they'd have water mana, and only Dwarves can get dwarf ''earth'' druids whereas the calabim worshipping Rok, who are pressumably also devoted to the earth, get stupid nature druids.

 

[Ecofarm]

"Stupid nature Druids"?

That's a bit harsh. Those druids can summon a 9 and an 11 (perm) and improve land. They just aren't "offensive" druids.

But yea, I prefer Bals druids even if Luch are the most powerful by far. Elven druids are weak on offense (especially vs a clear-cut civ). Increase the range on Domination to at least 2, or 3, and Bals druids might start to compare to earth druids. As it is, you must move next to the enemy (city?!) and get lucky on domination cast and survive the turn - rarely useful.

Note: the earth and mind/chaos druids come from civs, not religion. Perhaps that could be changed? Worship Runes = earth druids, Worship FoL = crappy nature druids (j/k), OO = chaos/mind/(water?) druids. Or, give OO water, and let everyone get mind/chaos druids (Druids of the Socioeconomic Realm).


.02

 

[Sarisin]

How about this radical idea?

Instead of being able to build 3 Paladins, 3 Druids or 3 Eidolons, how about if a civ could build one of each?

I know the purists just shrieked and fell off their chairs with that suggestion. Horrors! How could you possibly have an Elohim Eidolon or a Sheaim Paladin?

Well, the answer is, you can. Just convert the Elohim to AV or Sheaim to the Order.

Think of it as a renegade unit or something.

I just think it would add more variety and be fun to build one of each unit than be limited to three of the same.

Yes, I realize you can play with your alignments and get several of them, but this would also eliminate that.

What do you think?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't like the idea.However, it got me thinking that it would be cool if you could have al 3 units be of the same unitclass so that the limit of 3 counts for all of them. You could choose one of each, three of one, or two of one and one of another.

Of course, I don't think it is currently possible to do it like that, since each unitclass must have a default unit and each civ can have only 1 unique version of it. It would be cooler though if you could instead have several different units in the same unitclass but the buildable one depended on your algnment/religion/civics.

 

[Cuteunit]

Let's note that this entire discussion is " I really wish it was easier to get Druids". This supports what I've been saying that paladins/eidolons suck comparatively when held up against druids.

 

[xienwolf]

Give each of them the full triad of magic (sorcery/summoning/divine) and a sphere to play with IMO. Fire for Paladins (passed down ever since before Bhaal fell, but mainly because giving Fire is a pretty strong boost, and I don't want to boost Evil the most yet again), Entropy for Eidolons (wanted to say Mind for Domination, one of the other really nice Level 3 spells, and somewhat fitting to them... but Mind isn't full spells So it'd be useless that they have summoning then).

 

[Grillick]

Paladins and Eidolons should have access to metal weapons.

If they did, they would equal the power of druids.

 

[Mailbox]

Paladins and Eidolons should have access to metal weapons.

If they did, they would equal the power of druids.

I like this the most, it's very flavorful and would make both paladins and Eidolons very powerful units. Some balance on their final strength might be need though.

I don't like the idea of giving paladins sphere 3 fire. It just doesn't seem like paladins would use meteors more often than a sword.

Something else that might work is to add defensive strength to the Paladin and offensive strength to the Eidolon.

 

[xienwolf]

As it stands they are both fairly strong units, 11 + 3 Holy for Paladin, 11 + 4 Unholy for Eidolon (why is it stronger anyway?). Puts them on par for strongest non-hero units. Toss on another 2 is nifty, but doesn't in my mind compare with the raw utility of the Druids outside of war as well.

And even if they had Fire 3, they'd jump into battle themselves as well But Law or Life are also full spell lines that would fit well. Let them have Law and I could see easily as many people trying to get Paladins, even outside of war, as try to get Druids (I think I'd even make a bid to get both with a timely religion change...)

 

[kenken244]

Eidolons are stronger because unholy is easily resistable and paladins have demon slaying so a paladin would be able to defeat a eidolon of the same level

 

[Quetz]

I also agree with the OP, having to juggle religions to get druids is damn annoying.

 

[Seventh Star]

The whole Eidolin/Druid/Paladin thing is really quite an annoying piece of symmetry, given the teams dislike of symmetry.

My suggestions:

Pull the listed three. Give each religion a unique replacement. Make sure all religious combat units have higher tiers to go to. Re, ratha, satyr, radient guard.

 

[Darkheart]

I think Seventh Star is hitting on something here.... make the Druid/Paladin/Eidolon religion specific with maybe an agnostic equivalent for the heathens.

Each has an affinity to the mana type given by that religions holy shrine and level 1 2 and 3 spells that provide "flavour" to the class.

The difficulty is providing a mix of flavour that doesn't simply copy or outweigh the high priests of each specific religion... they should be the warriors of their gods not the healers.

 

[Mesix]

"Stupid nature Druids"?

That's a bit harsh. Those druids can summon a 9 and an 11 (perm) and improve land. They just aren't "offensive" druids.

But yea, I prefer Bals druids even if Luch are the most powerful by far. Elven druids are weak on offense (especially vs a clear-cut civ). Increase the range on Domination to at least 2, or 3, and Bals druids might start to compare to earth druids. As it is, you must move next to the enemy (city?!) and get lucky on domination cast and survive the turn - rarely useful.

Note: the earth and mind/chaos druids come from civs, not religion. Perhaps that could be changed? Worship Runes = earth druids, Worship FoL = crappy nature druids (j/k), OO = chaos/mind/(water?) druids. Or, give OO water, and let everyone get mind/chaos druids (Druids of the Socioeconomic Realm).


.02

I think that Vitalize is a better reason to get Druids than Treants. My Druids run around Vitalizing tiles for the most part. Wasting 3 promotions for my Archmage to do the same thing seems like a waste. I believe that these are the only 2 units that can get Vitalize.

On a role playing/flavor note: in one game, I wanted to Vitalize while playing an evil civ. I was able to accomplish this by getting Nature III for my Lich. I smiled a bit every time my Lich rolled on to a new city in his quest to save the planet.

 

[Fenboy]

Let's note that this entire discussion is " I really wish it was easier to get Druids".

You sir, win this thread