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Pantheon, Founder and Follower Beliefs

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by The_J, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    This here is just meant as a cut-out from the Sunday's PAX thread, and I want to see some speculations :):








    Opinions :)?
     
  2. seasnake

    seasnake Conquistador

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    Some of them seem stronger than others, but possibly that's because certain ones appeal to how I play the game more than others.
     
  3. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Chieftain

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    I think that the pantheon beliefs that benefit from terrain are great, perhaps now spawning in the middle of the desert, tundra or jungle wont be so bad.

    Im hoping the Mayans get some sort of jungle bonus or UI, that, along with sacred path seems like fun.
     
  4. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

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    Messenger of the Gods would be huge with Arabia if they're unchanged
     
  5. FeiLing

    FeiLing Chieftain

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    This is awful. Damn AI's will always be taking this and Tradition and 1-shot one of your units every turn unless you're two eras ahead in tech.
     
  6. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

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    kind of unrelated, but it is speculation. the faith healers or whatever made me think about how jaguars are going to need more than 2 hp healed. maybe they'll change it to 20. anything on this?
     
  7. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Chieftain

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    To balance this it's quite simple . Just don't allow stacking this bonus and Oligarchy bonus . If still's overpowered,just limit to few cities .
     
  8. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

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    Also don't forget if you adopt a belief it blocks it for all others.

    I'm not too afraid 100% increased ranged strength +50% with this belief for cities will make them impenetrable fortresses. Your units will have 100 HP now, so that should more than balance this out... in theory.
     
  9. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    That could be possible. They don't allow japan UA and Autocracy's Populism bonus to stack.
     
  10. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Chieftain

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    Going against a heavily stacked Ethiopia with Goddess of Protection or Faith healers will be really challenging.

    Im really liking the possibilities the beliefs will bring to the table for stacking UA bonuses, balancing out or just taking advantage of the terrain.

    Like for example, Spain with One with nature, Egypt with Monuments to the Gods, etc.
     
  11. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Chieftain

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    No, I think there are genuine balance issues. I have a hard time seeing why you wouldn't take Fertility Rites and Messenger of the Gods (except perhaps the latter if you're playing a tall empire), and Goddess of the Hunt rewards you unreasonably for settling near the relevant resources. At least they've balanced the plantation bonus against the fact that you're more likely to have lots of plantations than anything else, since the largest number of luxury resources can be generated from those.

    On the other hand, faith may be more valuable than it seems at first - getting a Mausoleum of Helicarnassus bonus whenever you spread sufficient faith to another city is not to be sniffed at.
     
  12. awesome

    awesome Chieftain

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    religious settlements would work great with russia's krepost
     
  13. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

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    I see a few here as well that will be favourites all the time, certainly Fertility Rites being among them, but at least there's a bunch, and you won't be completely free to pick. Probably on an average difficulty level you'll be able to pick the first ones, and then after that you get what's left.
    Maybe, if you're late, you have to adopt a religion that another civ has already picked before you can gain access to certain beliefs. We're not sure yet how this exactly will work out.

    It won't be as unbalanced as the current Social Policies, where players pick the same policies over and over again.
     
  14. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Chieftain

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    Hmm, even in vanilla there's these things called 'promotions', and they happen to include things like 'cover' - which gives better defence vs. ranged attacks. Maybe someone might want you to use those more often (rather than ignoring them - which we all basically do).

    keep in mind this is a demo, and not final product. Plus, hey, what would Civ be without balance issues when something is released? :mischief:

    The point of the terrain bonuses seems to be that you are far more likely to worship some 'natural' thing near you, rather than something that's not - Ie, actually historical.

    oh, and +2 beakers/trade route is pretty minimal across a medium sized empire, compared to, say, a library in one tall city.


    edit:

    Random other aside:

    Does anyone remember if the demo civ happened to be the 'first' to found a religion? If not, then there may be other beliefs missing - since only one religion can have a belief at a time.
     
  15. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Austria had a religion.
     
  16. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Chieftain

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    It's due for release in two months. The Goddess of the Hunt ability has remained the same since the expansion was first previewed, and that looks to be one of the more problematic.

    Historically, it didn't make any practical difference to a civilisation's development whether they worshipped the hill next door or the forest two valleys over. The G&K development I'm least enthusiastic about is the bonuses granted for religion - it was strange enough that the Temple of Artemis gives bonuses based on that goddess's specialties rather than conceptually related to the building itself, without having a whole pantheon (literally) of gods taking an active role in their civilizations' affairs. Combined with the deliberate "not everyone can found a religion" mechanic, it seems designed to exacerbate the core problem with religion in Civ IV - the exclusivity problem which gives the civs that happen upon it first the edge. And as mentioned it adds a whole new area to balance the game around when it arguably still needs balancing around its existing policy trees.

    A library in a tall city has a maintenance cost. Even a single jungle tile that you keep around for the same 2 science bonus needs to be worked and prevents you from developing it into something more productive. I think that would be less a go-to pantheon member if there was a significant trade-off with anything else, but you can have I think five pantheon members? There's not enough in this list to make the choices that difficult or varied.
     
  17. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    huh? I'm pretty sure everyone can pick the same Pantheon beliefs. Only the Founder and Follower Beliefs are limited.
     
  18. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Chieftain

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    there is nothing more productive than a TP in a jungle tile (for a jungle type tile).

    anyone can get a pantheon, but only a few get religions.
     
  19. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    You left out the Follower Beliefs.

    Asceticism: Shrines provide +1 Happiness in Cities with 3 followers
    Cathedrals: Use Faith to purchase Cathedrals (+1 Faith, +3 Culture, +1 Happiness, Artist Specialist slot)
    Choral Music: Temples provide +2 Culture in Cities with 5 followers
    Divine Inspiration: Each World Wonder provides +2 Faith in city
    Feed the World: Shrines and Temples provide +1 Food each in city
    Guruship: +2 Production if city has a Specialist
    Holy Warriors: Use Faith to purchase pre-Industrial land units
    Liturgical Drama: Amphitheaters provide +1 Faith in cities with 3 followers
    Monasteries: Use Faith to purchase Monasteries (+2 Faith, +2 Culture, more with Wine or Incense)
    Mosques: Use Faith to purchase Mosques (+3 Faith, +2 Culture, +1 Happiness)
    Peace Gardens: Gardens provide +2 Happiness in city
    Religious Art: Hermitage provides +5 Culture in city
    Religious Community: +1% Production for each follower (max +15%)
    Swords into Plowshares: 15?% faster Growth rate for city if not at war

     
  20. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

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    Huh. Odd that they made the mosque / cathedral split.
     

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