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Pantheon Rating

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by BiteInTheMark, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    To help Gazebo a bit with balancing, I would like to ask you guys for your rating of pantheons.
    Everyone has different opinions, what is strong, what is weak. What do you like.
    With all that great people in that forum, all that opinons, its hard to estimate, which of those pantheons we have is underpowered or overpowered. I say, lets do it good oldfashioned with a rating and statistics.

    Pls add your name (or XXX) in the first row and then give every pantheon 2 votes.
    The first vote should be your rating about the strength of a pantheon:
    1 + 2 = too weak, pls buff
    3 + 4 = weaker, but maybe ok
    5 = balanced, everything fine
    6 + 7 = strong, but maybe ok
    8 + 9 = too strong, pls nerf
    The second vote is about, how much you like the pantheon.
    Some people pick a pantheon cause its strong, but not cause they like it. I hope, with this vote, we will be able to see which mechanic has the most likes and which kind of mechanic offers the most fun/affection.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q4CVZgrvCJbYH0mT8pTBfbk8r9LEjZSUNlXD5SE_kNg/edit#gid=0

    I know a better place would be the balance sub-forum, but I think this spot reaches more people, the results can be discussed then in the forum later. :)
    Still, feel free to comment. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
    MidnightAfterglow likes this.
  2. TranceBlossom

    TranceBlossom Chieftain

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    It says I need to request permission to view or edit the sheet, can you make it public?
     
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    0 to 10 is a awful wide range. Maybe 1 to 5, where 3 is just right
     
  4. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Ok, it should work now.

    A wider range enables a more different rating. 1-5 gives only a few steps to differenciate.
     
  5. hokath

    hokath Chieftain

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    This sort of poll also has the issue that you can see what other people have written when you are filling in the list. That influence is going to cause a bigger skew for 1-10 than 1-5.
     
  6. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    So if I think a pantheon is balanced or about as strong as it should be, what number do I put? Less than 10 but higher than 0?
     
  7. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Yeah, I thought the same, but you can scroll the sheet to the side, till you hide the Last commentator.
    Balanced= 5
    Maybe it's easier to pick balanced pantheons first, set them to 5 and then vote for the others based on your opinion about the balanced.
     
  8. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    I suggest that you should also add difficulty column, so that you can filter players by difficulty that they play. It might be useful for players to see what pantheons better players consider stronger.

    Also it is worth mentioning that relative strength of the pantheon should be measured assuming that this pantheon was taken in a situation where it was the best possible choice, but it was not a super uncommon situation (i.e. if you are Inca and you have 7 cities on mountains with good of mountains)

    EDIT: i played with the table a little bit to make it easier to read and analyze
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  9. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Well, I thought it's obviously that the pantheon have to be rated depending on good circumstances for the pantheon. Rating God of the Sea bad cause the player like Pangäa maps would be a bit stupid ;)
     
  10. Cat-du-fromage

    Cat-du-fromage Chieftain

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    Some are hard to rate depending on the civ sometimes, zum beispeil: carthage + god of commerce = VERY good synergy

    EDIT: I want to add multiplayer should be considere in the parameter, as players against a human player tend(or choose which he consideres to be the best) to use the most efficient tool in the game.
     
  11. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    What do you mean by good circumstances though? What if a pantheon is only good with 2 or 3 civs? In very good circumstances Nature, Desert and Tundra pantheons crush anything else. The coolness poll will be interesting, but the other question is pretty useless because what is meant by the "strength of a pantheon" isn't clear at all. Bad data is worse than no data.
     
  12. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    I will make a extra row for difficulty, but I think that much differenciation (civ specific or multiplayer) isn't necessary, the pantheons should be balanced to any civ.

    Good circumstances = not bad circumstances (aka God of Sea on Pangäa map)
    I suggest this rating:
    1 + 2 = too weak, pls buff
    3 + 4 = weaker, but maybe ok
    5 = balanced, everything fine
    6 + 7 = strong, but maybe ok
    8 + 9 = too strong, pls nerf
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  13. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Why do pantheons should be equal to all civs? We have a set of pantheons which we can choose from depend on the civ we play, the situation we are in and the strategy we use right? I think its interesting and if there is a pantheon only work for 1 or 2 civs its OK. I can hardly think of any pantheon which doesnt have its use.
     
  14. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    While it's OK to create pantheons which are only useful in some circumstances (desert/tundra/ocea/mountains), I think it's a bad idea to create pantheons which are only good for few civs.
    What I mean is, pantheons should be "relative" equal in strength, if you would play a civ without ability and shouldnt be too strong, if picked by the most optimal civ.

    Commerce will be such a candidate, which is maybe in its current form too strong. It's already a nice pantheon, but could be op if picked by a trader civ. The quest would be to make it strong enough for every civ but not too strong in the hands of a trader civ. That's a hard task.
     
  15. Cat-du-fromage

    Cat-du-fromage Chieftain

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    mmmh i Think it might be okay that some pantheon have better synergy with certain type of civ AS LONG as there is a pantheon for every type, but that's a very complex question:crazyeye:,

    i didn't find those synergy that OP not even that strong to be honest, those base on start i would say may be very (maybe too) strong
     
    vyyt likes this.
  16. Bromar1

    Bromar1 Chieftain

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    Then only Pantheon that I find unreliable is goddess of purity. Happiness on a Pantheon is weird and not super useful. It encourages wide play, I guess, but having multiple cities with marshes or lakes is very rare
     
  17. Cat-du-fromage

    Cat-du-fromage Chieftain

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    mmh i prefere to say, happiness with the latest versions is so... invisible i would say^^', knowing i will be in permanent positiv happiness entering classical era, i don't even considere this pantheon an option xD.

    BUT one day when the balance with happiness will be restore, it might become interresting.
     
  18. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Very map deoendent. I’ve gotten plays where that pantheon was the best one hands down.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  19. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    Well thats basically how you should rate it. In a very good scenario, i.e. you should rate Commerce assuming you play Carthage. I woudn't say Commerce is OP for Carthage or Songhai or Haiawata, it is just quite weak for everyone else. If you take it for other civs - you absolutely must play Progress and you should invest a lot for it to be strong.

    And Pantheons should be balanced around the same idea, that they should be feel good (just good, not super good) in a very good (but not crazy good) situation
     
    BiteInTheMark and vyyt like this.
  20. Valvts

    Valvts A Plant

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    Oh I wish there was written the effects of each :O
     
    mikes61293 and MidnightAfterglow like this.

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