Paratroopers

[ButSam]

WOOHOO!!! Very excited to try out the new Paratrooper units! I know Paratroopers have been a part of Civ for awhile, but usually they are no better than Riflemen. The Paratroopers in Civ V are amazing! Strength of 40 (more than Infantry at 32, less than Mech Infantry at 50)! These people can pack a punch! They appear to come somewhat later (with Radar), but that trade is fine for me

 

[Robovski]

Interesting point from the manual, their range is 5 hexes from a friendly hex, not the city they are in. I'm interested in seeing how that actually plays out.

 

[Koolhan]

I was excited to see them in the manual too, and their beefed up stats. Wish there was some good way to implement Marines as well.....eh, maybe for an expansion.

I can see these units wreaking havoc in a war, should be fun.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Str. 40 with the ability to choose your fortifications as it were. With ZOC they will provide a very nice roadblock behind the front line. Promote them with Drill I since you can always be on rough terrain and boom +45% defense. Against those shock tanks they'd stack up as a 58 str. unit.

 

[Le Roi Soleil]

Str. 40 with the ability to choose your fortifications as it were. With ZOC they will provide a very nice roadblock behind the front line. Promote them with Drill I since you can always be on rough terrain and boom +45% defense. Against those shock tanks they'd stack up as a 58 str. unit.

Tell that to the 101st Airborne.

 

[Beardy Dan]

As long as they are not shot down whilst landing.
The manual does say they can be intercepted after all.

 

[NackteElfe]

I talked to some friends about this, but I am eager to hear from you, if you use the paratrooper at all?

We discussed about it and agree that a jumping radius of 5 is not enough for the unit to effective or useful at all. Of course they are somewhat stronger than the regular infantry but at the same time most civs have mech. infantry anyway.

So we thought of modding their jump range up to 10 tiles. IMHO that would make them useful without overpowering them.

What do you think about that?

 

[Gaizokubanou]

Paratroopers are currently too gimicky and not all that useful.

If the AI had some sense of defensive tactics then paratroopers may be useful to bypass defenses to hit softer targets, but as of right now the hammers/gold is better spent getting another artillery/mech.

 

[NackteElfe]

So do you agree that the expanding of the jump radius would help to balance that problem out a bit?

 

[Polish]

Actually, I think the Paras are about right at 5 hexes--especially since they changed it to 5 hexes from friendly territory. I used them all the time in IV but you had to be in a friendly city at start of turn. They can also move some after jumping so the range is really more like 6 or 7. They are great for jumping out ahead of the mechanized troops and blocking or attacking from the rear, really good if you have helicopter gunships around for support since they are mostly going to be outside artillery support. Anyway, I would not go nearly as far as 10--maybe 6 or 8 so they would be double the mech follow-up forces.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

So do you agree that the expanding of the jump radius would help to balance that problem out a bit?

A bit? Yes. But that's not the core problem with paratroopers. The core problem is that AI will rarely, if ever, put you in a spot where you can do more with a paratrooper than mech or artillery.

The key advantage of para is their unique movement (jumping over enemies and impassable terrains without terrain cost) with a penalty of lower strength than mechs. To use this advantage, you need good targets (soft but hard hitting units like artillery) that can only be reached by paratrooper's unique movement, but currently this doesn't happen as the AI just sends a huge wave of units with no consideration for positioning (with artilleries and infantry advancing to you exactly the same way, leaving artilleries vulnerable from just about anything). This makes paratrooper simply a worse choice than a mech.

If pillaging had more effect on the AI, or the AI actually took positioning into account and tried to protect their range units by putting stronger units to the front, then paratroopers may have some uses.

 

[gunter]

Could someone please explain to me Paratroopers' ZoC within CiV ?

I have never had the chance to give them a try...

Thanks

 

[Zenstrive]

your paratrooper can JUMP 5 hexes away from the last hex in your control into the enemy territories and it can move again after JUMP

 

[Mystere]

I think paratroopers have more uses in MP for sure, to jump over a chokepoint or citadel. Maybe even a mountainrange. Situational as they are in any game I kinda like the fact that they do have a nice strength and are not just infantry with a trick.

Zone of control is the same for them as any other unit. Any enemy unit moving next to it has to end the turn there (doesn't matter how many moves they had left) or attack the paratrooper and maybe then move further (if they kill it and are able to move after attack). Essentially making it so that any unit close to it cannot rush past the trooper to the frontline. It certainly has it uses.

EDIT: Maybe I misunderstood the ZoC question... nevermind

 

[Feyd Rautha]

I thought I saw a mod that changed a few things around with the upgrade path and put paratroopers between infantry and mech. infantry (b/c he added an oil requirement to mech infantry).

Made them much more involved (and it fit with military history).

 

[King_Course]

Would it be a good idea to let Paratroopers be stationed on Carriers maybe? That way you could launch a modern invasion without having to do this slow army embarkment. At least not on invasion day? They would still take up the place of a bomber so it would surely be a tradeoff in your fleet composition.

I would love that change along with an airport allowing 1 unit pr turn (infantry only maybe)to be transported to a receiving city (must also have airport of course)

A national wonder could be this huge Russian freightplane, allowing tanks and choppers to be airbridged then.

I think this, along with sattelites allowing at least big round zones of the map to be viewable, (build a sattelite, place it and be able to see a large round zone around it placement) would distinguish modern warfare and give it it's own feeling. Right now I actually think modern warfare feels pretty "old", same as BC time more or less.

 

[Catastrophe90]

Paratroopers are fun to use. Jump them behind enemy lines and start stealing all their Workers. Or maybe pillage a few Strategic Resource improvements.

On a slightly unrelated note, do Paratroopers with Blitz get to attack after paradropping?

 

[Polish]

Stationing Paras on a carrier would be just a little absurd. Even a Nimitz Class Nuclear Supercarrier only carries around 100 attack planes. The thought of having enough airlift capacity on a carrier to transport 8-10 thousand men and their equipment is beyond reasonable. Not to mention that the cargo planes used to transport them cannot be launched from carriers. The Marines use a carrier borne helicopter assault force, but it is much smaller (a reinforced battalion) and far more range limited. If you want to use Paras to support a seaborne landing, you are just going to have to find a base (like an allied CS!) close enough to launch from as the Allies used England for D Day. There were no Paras involved in the Torch landings in North Africa because there was no base close enough. Nothing else would be at all reasonable.

 

[GenericPlayer]

Paratroopers are fun to use. Jump them behind enemy lines and start stealing all their Workers. Or maybe pillage a few Strategic Resource improvements.

On a slightly unrelated note, do Paratroopers with Blitz get to attack after paradropping?

I was sure I had one with Blitz in a game I just finished, and was going to test it. Alas, Alexander had dumped a bunch of cruise missiles on him during the initial invasion and I never really got a chance to find out.

This game was first one I played post patch, and I can tell you from my experience that the AI is giving paratroopers alot more attention. I saw AAA on the coastline and I actually had to use Jet Fighter Sweep for the first time ever. Also, more so than any of my other units, Paras seem to get alot of the focus when AI starts firing cruise missiles. It could just be that my paratroopers are deep behind the lines and make a convenient target. Also, from what I could see, Rome was building a lot of paratroopers - I will fight them next and see how the AI will use them.

One thing I did notice is that they cant jump blind, so the tile you are jumping to has to be visible. However, the 2 MPs post-jump are really neat as they can help with positioning, trap workers and even expose more tiles for Bomber/Fighter attack.

I think they are fine as is, and I have to say this is the first release of Civ where I didn't feel they were a novelty. Hopefully we will see a new DLC/expansion with revamped Marines.

 

[Alex_K]

I talked to some friends about this, but I am eager to hear from you, if you use the paratrooper at all?

We discussed about it and agree that a jumping radius of 5 is not enough for the unit to effective or useful at all. Of course they are somewhat stronger than the regular infantry but at the same time most civs have mech. infantry anyway.

So we thought of modding their jump range up to 10 tiles. IMHO that would make them useful without overpowering them.

What do you think about that?

Ever heard of 'A Bridge Too Far'?