1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Paris : A world city

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Marla_Singer, Oct 22, 2004.

  1. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    That's an interesting exercice. You're posting stats about Toronto and then conclude from those stats, which are strictly about Toronto, that Paris is not multicultural. :hmm:
     
  2. Goonie

    Goonie Lonely End of the Rink

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,312
    Location:
    Kingston
    Marla, go whine to the UN if you don't like it.

    EDIT : Because UN numbers state Toronto is the most diverse city in the world.
     
  3. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,680
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    No, he's saying that there's nothing remarkable about Parisian multiculturalism as it can be seen in many other large cities and so the reasons he has for liking Paris are for other reasons.
     
  4. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    I do agree with you actually. Both Toronto and Paris are multi-cultural. As such, I don't really see the point my fellow Canadians try to make.

    The only reason why I've answered is because the guys were globally saying : "No Paris is not mutli-cultural since Toronto is".
    My simple question then is... why both can't be multicultural in the same time ?

    Glad to hear so. ;)
     
  5. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,680
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    The point is even though it is multicaltural, there's nothing especially remarkable about its level of multiculturalism so you should be touting it for other reasons.
     
  6. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    32,193
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    It's French, nuf said!
     
  7. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    And I insist in the fact that Paris is more diverse than most cities in the world. Indeed, what makes Paris special is that it hosts people coming from all continents. Very few cities in the world can pretend to do so. There are large communauties coming from Europe, Africa, the Middle East, the Carribeans, the Indian subcontinent, South East Asia and the Far East. Of course it is true for other cities such as New York or London. But I wouldn't say it's true for Sydney, Melbourne or Vancouver (which hosts mainly Asian immigrants).
     
  8. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    My purpose is not to tout. It's to make you discover things you don't know. The simple fact you deny Paris is multi-cultural proves how biased is your vision of France.

    What amazes me is not really your lack of curiosity, many people are not curious, but actually, it's the reason for your lack of curiosity. People don't want to know about the rest of the world because they think they know enough (and even better than the locals) about it. How sad this can be. :shakehead
     
  9. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,680
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    I'm not so sure about that, I mean even here in Minneapolis we have large amount of people from many different areas, Hmong, Somolians, Ethipoians, Serbs, Middle Eastern and Latin Americans. I think you're underestimating the diversity of other cities.
     
  10. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,680
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    I never said it wasn't multi-cultural, I just said it wasn't amazingly multicultural when you take into account it's a large Westernized city.

    Of course, I'm curious, what makes you think that I'm not?

    Not this person, that's why I'm gonna go there and check things out for myself!

    I dunno, not very, I guess ;)
     
  11. PantheraTigris2

    PantheraTigris2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,006
    Marla, where in France are the most 'uni-cultural' areas? I'm thinking eastern France - over by Alsace and Lorraine (sp?) would be a nice spot, for me to look... that's where some of my ancestors came from. But yeah, where are the most 'thoroughbred' French areas? I.e., good places to look to a potential wife... :mischief:
     
  12. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    Do you sincerly believe I've never moved out from Paris in my life. I know that I don't underestimate Paris' diversity for the simple reason that I've visited many other cities in the world : London, New York, Montreal, Sydney, Melbourne, Berlin, Madrid, Rome, Brussels, Amsterdam, Warsaw, Prague, Los Angeles, etc...

    Of course all those are very diverse, but very few cities give the impression to host people coming from all over the world. Once again, I've lived this only in London and New York. Of course, most of the other cities are multi-cultural, I would say all of the mentionned above except Warsaw and Prague. However, my impression was the migrants were more homogenous.

    Your statement above :p. You think you already know Paris even without having lived there. If I mention Paris' diversity, it's not at random. I wouldn't have posted a thread about Bordeaux or Krakow fantastic diversity simply because it's obvious it's not fantastic at all. Paris has been a city of migration since the 18th century. It's been the capital city of a colonial empire having a foot on every continents. Actually, it shouldn't be a surprise that Paris is specifically multi-cultural, but people prefer to deny it because it doesn't picture well with their image of the french guy with a mustache and a berret getting bread back at home.

    Good idea ! Maybe it would have been even better to talk about it only after having seen by yourself. ;).

    No, there are many muslim immigrants in Alsace and Lorraine. Lorraine's wave of immigration was more between the 30's and the 60's so there are mainly European immigrants and North African immigrants. However, it's newer in Strasbourg, meaning there are also Asian and African immigrants. More than in Lorraine I guess.

    I guess the most uni-cultural places (outside Northern Paris were really few are non-muslim), would certainly be the rural areas in the center of the country. I would say the Center-West of France. Around the Loire river.


    EDIT : I just wanted to say that I'm also aware that other cities than Paris are growing multi-cultural faster than Paris itself. Immigration in France became a lot more complicate in the last decade. However, it's not because immigration have slown down that the older immigrants didn't have kids. ;)
     
  13. PantheraTigris2

    PantheraTigris2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,006
    Alright... Loire river - I know where that is... I'll keep this in mind, thanks.

    I had never really considered central & western France... :hmm:

    Hey, what about Corsica? Do all the women there look like Laetitia Casta??

    Ah, well... there's always Germany. Not quite the same, though... :undecide:
     
  14. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    Why do you want to keep this in mind ? You plan to visit a none multi-cultural part of Europe ? Well, I guess it's an argument a bit short to visit a place !

    Bah anyway, the Loire Valley is famous in here for its castles. There are better reason to visit that region than that. ;)

    Corsica is the part of France which is the closer to North Africa. As such, many North Africans installed over there. Especially in the 70's. It's true though that there are problems about immigrants in Corsica, since the independentists don't see them with a good eye (to not say they are completely racist). However, those independentist represents only a marginal minority, but they unfortunately do a lot of noise.

    Germany welcomes today far more migrants than France. It's true that there were less in Germany than in France in the past. But this is getting wrong. It's about the same as in Canada actually (even if Canada is growing multi-cultural even faster than Germany). After this, the newest countries of immigration in Europe are certainly Spain, Portugal and Italy. There were almost no immigrants at all in the 70's in those country.
     
  15. PantheraTigris2

    PantheraTigris2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,006
    I dunno, while fascinating on vacation, I wouldn't want to live surrounded by massive multi-culturalism every day of my life. It just makes things complicated, and inconvenient, if nothing else. There's all kinds of 'cons' to having that kind of situation. And they out-weigh the 'pros', IMHO - having lived in good examples of both extremes.

    I really do pity what's happening to France - with all those Muslim immigrants. But, that's just me. Not saying anything's 'wrong' or 'bad' about it... just that I think it's, unfortunate. Undesirable. Welcome to the melting pot, Europe.
     
  16. kronic

    kronic Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,366
    Didn't Chevènement resign over Corsica not that long ago?
     
  17. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    Actually, immigration isn't something new in France, quite the contrary actually. France has massively limited its immigration in the 90's. Today, there are far more migrants arriving in countries like Canada or Germany than in France.

    As such Paris is still welcoming immigrants today, but not really more than the average western cities. However, it has always welcomed immigrants in mass non-stop from the 18th century untill today. And that makes it different from the average western cities. Firstly Brittons and Auvergnats, then Germans, then Poles and Russians, then Romanians and Armenians, then Portuguese, Spaniards and Italians, then Eastern European and Northern African jews, then North Africans, Cambodians, Vietnamese and Carribeans, and today mostly Africans and Asians.
     
  18. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    12,831
    Location:
    Paris, west side (92).
    Yes indeed. Chevenement resigned from the Jospin government about 5 years ago because he disagreed with the Matignon agreement which was a plan to give more autonomy to Corsica.

    Actually, the referendum about Corsican autonomy has finally been voted only 2 years ago, and Corsicans have rejected it. As such, I guess Chevènement could go back in the government, but unfortunately, the majority has changed and the socialists aren't anymore in power ! ;)
     
  19. PantheraTigris2

    PantheraTigris2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,006
    What about good ol' Scandinavia? Land of the Norsemen. Are they immune to all this immigration (mainly 'cause it's too d@mn cold up there!)? :lol:

    I don't imagine too many Middle Easterners rubbing shoulders with the descendants of the Vikings...
    :viking: <--- (smiley should have fair skin, blue eyes, and blondish hair)
     
  20. Babbler

    Babbler Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,399
    If that is true, then not a single person would ever stay in Montreal.
     

Share This Page