Paris : A world city

[Goonie]

Marla, go whine to the UN if you don't like it.

EDIT : Because UN numbers state Toronto is the most diverse city in the world.

 

[Perfection]

That's an interesting exercice. You're posting stats about Toronto and then conclude from those stats, which are strictly about Toronto, that Paris is not multicultural.

No, he's saying that there's nothing remarkable about Parisian multiculturalism as it can be seen in many other large cities and so the reasons he has for liking Paris are for other reasons.

 

[Marla_Singer]

You guys talk as if 'multi-culturalism' was a 'good' thing. As if it were something to brag about... Well, you can go ahead and win that contest, as far as I'm concerned. I already have enough 'multi-culturalism' here in America, more than enough. Glad to hear you guys have your fair share, plus some. Makes me feel better about my own place...

I do agree with you actually. Both Toronto and Paris are multi-cultural. As such, I don't really see the point my fellow Canadians try to make.

The only reason why I've answered is because the guys were globally saying : "No Paris is not mutli-cultural since Toronto is".
My simple question then is... why both can't be multicultural in the same time ?

-That just totally made my day...

Glad to hear so.

 

[Perfection]

I do agree with you actually. Both Toronto and Paris are multi-cultural. As such, I don't really see the point my fellow Canadians try to make.

The only reason why I've answered is because the guys were globally saying : "No Paris is not mutli-cultural since Toronto is".
My simple question then is... why both can't be multicultural in the same time?

The point is even though it is multicaltural, there's nothing especially remarkable about its level of multiculturalism so you should be touting it for other reasons.

 

[Birdjaguar]

so you should be touting it for other reasons.

It's French, nuf said!

 

[Marla_Singer]

No, he's saying that there's nothing remarkable about Parisian multiculturalism as it can be seen in many other large cities and so the reasons he has for liking Paris are for other reasons.

And I insist in the fact that Paris is more diverse than most cities in the world. Indeed, what makes Paris special is that it hosts people coming from all continents. Very few cities in the world can pretend to do so. There are large communauties coming from Europe, Africa, the Middle East, the Carribeans, the Indian subcontinent, South East Asia and the Far East. Of course it is true for other cities such as New York or London. But I wouldn't say it's true for Sydney, Melbourne or Vancouver (which hosts mainly Asian immigrants).

 

[Marla_Singer]

so you should be touting it for other reasons.

My purpose is not to tout. It's to make you discover things you don't know. The simple fact you deny Paris is multi-cultural proves how biased is your vision of France.

What amazes me is not really your lack of curiosity, many people are not curious, but actually, it's the reason for your lack of curiosity. People don't want to know about the rest of the world because they think they know enough (and even better than the locals) about it. How sad this can be. :shakehead

 

[Perfection]

And I insist in the fact that Paris is more diverse than most cities in the world. Indeed, what makes Paris special is that it hosts people coming from all continents. Very few cities in the world can pretend to do so. There are large communauties coming from Europe, Africa, the Middle East, the Carribeans, the Indian subcontinent, South East Asia and the Far East. Of course it is true for other cities such as New York or London. But I wouldn't say it's true for Sydney, Melbourne or Vancouver (which hosts mainly Asian immigrants).

I'm not so sure about that, I mean even here in Minneapolis we have large amount of people from many different areas, Hmong, Somolians, Ethipoians, Serbs, Middle Eastern and Latin Americans. I think you're underestimating the diversity of other cities.

 

[Perfection]

My purpose is not to tout. It's to make you discover things you don't know. The simple fact you deny Paris is multi-cultural proves how biased is your vision of France.

I never said it wasn't multi-cultural, I just said it wasn't amazingly multicultural when you take into account it's a large Westernized city.

What amazes me is not really your lack of curiosity, many people are not curious, but actually, it's the reason for your lack of curiosity.

Of course, I'm curious, what makes you think that I'm not?

People don't want to know about the rest of the world because they think they know enough (and even better than the locals) about it.

Not this person, that's why I'm gonna go there and check things out for myself!

How sad this can be. :shakehead

I dunno, not very, I guess

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Marla, where in France are the most 'uni-cultural' areas? I'm thinking eastern France - over by Alsace and Lorraine (sp?) would be a nice spot, for me to look... that's where some of my ancestors came from. But yeah, where are the most 'thoroughbred' French areas? I.e., good places to look to a potential wife...

 

[Marla_Singer]

I'm not so sure about that, I mean even here in Minneapolis we have large amount of people from many different areas, Hmong, Somolians, Ethipoians, Serbs, Middle Eastern and Latin Americans. I think you're underestimating the diversity of other cities.

Do you sincerly believe I've never moved out from Paris in my life. I know that I don't underestimate Paris' diversity for the simple reason that I've visited many other cities in the world : London, New York, Montreal, Sydney, Melbourne, Berlin, Madrid, Rome, Brussels, Amsterdam, Warsaw, Prague, Los Angeles, etc...

Of course all those are very diverse, but very few cities give the impression to host people coming from all over the world. Once again, I've lived this only in London and New York. Of course, most of the other cities are multi-cultural, I would say all of the mentionned above except Warsaw and Prague. However, my impression was the migrants were more homogenous.

I never said it wasn't multi-cultural, I just said it wasn't amazingly multicultural when you take into account it's a large Westernized city.

Of course, I'm curious, what makes you think that I'm not?

Your statement above . You think you already know Paris even without having lived there. If I mention Paris' diversity, it's not at random. I wouldn't have posted a thread about Bordeaux or Krakow fantastic diversity simply because it's obvious it's not fantastic at all. Paris has been a city of migration since the 18th century. It's been the capital city of a colonial empire having a foot on every continents. Actually, it shouldn't be a surprise that Paris is specifically multi-cultural, but people prefer to deny it because it doesn't picture well with their image of the french guy with a mustache and a berret getting bread back at home.

Not this person, that's why I'm gonna go there and check things out for myself!

Good idea ! Maybe it would have been even better to talk about it only after having seen by yourself. .

Marla, where in France are the most 'uni-cultural' areas? I'm thinking eastern France - over by Alsace and Lorraine (sp?) would be a nice spot, for me to look... that's where some of my ancestors came from. But yeah, where are the most 'thoroughbred' French areas? I.e., good places to look to a potential wife...

No, there are many muslim immigrants in Alsace and Lorraine. Lorraine's wave of immigration was more between the 30's and the 60's so there are mainly European immigrants and North African immigrants. However, it's newer in Strasbourg, meaning there are also Asian and African immigrants. More than in Lorraine I guess.

I guess the most uni-cultural places (outside Northern Paris were really few are non-muslim), would certainly be the rural areas in the center of the country. I would say the Center-West of France. Around the Loire river.


EDIT : I just wanted to say that I'm also aware that other cities than Paris are growing multi-cultural faster than Paris itself. Immigration in France became a lot more complicate in the last decade. However, it's not because immigration have slown down that the older immigrants didn't have kids.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Alright... Loire river - I know where that is... I'll keep this in mind, thanks.

I had never really considered central & western France...

Hey, what about Corsica? Do all the women there look like Laetitia Casta??

Ah, well... there's always Germany. Not quite the same, though...

 

[Marla_Singer]

Alright... Loire river - I know where that is... I'll keep this in mind, thanks.

I had never really considered central & western France...

Why do you want to keep this in mind ? You plan to visit a none multi-cultural part of Europe ? Well, I guess it's an argument a bit short to visit a place !

Bah anyway, the Loire Valley is famous in here for its castles. There are better reason to visit that region than that.

Hey, what about Corsica? Do all the women there look like Laetitia Casta??

Corsica is the part of France which is the closer to North Africa. As such, many North Africans installed over there. Especially in the 70's. It's true though that there are problems about immigrants in Corsica, since the independentists don't see them with a good eye (to not say they are completely racist). However, those independentist represents only a marginal minority, but they unfortunately do a lot of noise.

Ah, well... there's always Germany. Not quite the same, though...

Germany welcomes today far more migrants than France. It's true that there were less in Germany than in France in the past. But this is getting wrong. It's about the same as in Canada actually (even if Canada is growing multi-cultural even faster than Germany). After this, the newest countries of immigration in Europe are certainly Spain, Portugal and Italy. There were almost no immigrants at all in the 70's in those country.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

I dunno, while fascinating on vacation, I wouldn't want to live surrounded by massive multi-culturalism every day of my life. It just makes things complicated, and inconvenient, if nothing else. There's all kinds of 'cons' to having that kind of situation. And they out-weigh the 'pros', IMHO - having lived in good examples of both extremes.

I really do pity what's happening to France - with all those Muslim immigrants. But, that's just me. Not saying anything's 'wrong' or 'bad' about it... just that I think it's, unfortunate. Undesirable. Welcome to the melting pot, Europe.

 

[kronic]

Didn't Chevènement resign over Corsica not that long ago?

 

[Marla_Singer]

I really do pity what's happening to France - with all those Muslim immigrants. But, that's just me. Not saying anything's 'wrong' or 'bad' about it... just that I think it's, unfortunate. Undesirable. Welcome to the melting pot, Europe.

Actually, immigration isn't something new in France, quite the contrary actually. France has massively limited its immigration in the 90's. Today, there are far more migrants arriving in countries like Canada or Germany than in France.

As such Paris is still welcoming immigrants today, but not really more than the average western cities. However, it has always welcomed immigrants in mass non-stop from the 18th century untill today. And that makes it different from the average western cities. Firstly Brittons and Auvergnats, then Germans, then Poles and Russians, then Romanians and Armenians, then Portuguese, Spaniards and Italians, then Eastern European and Northern African jews, then North Africans, Cambodians, Vietnamese and Carribeans, and today mostly Africans and Asians.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Didn't Chevènement resign over Corsica not that long ago?

Yes indeed. Chevenement resigned from the Jospin government about 5 years ago because he disagreed with the Matignon agreement which was a plan to give more autonomy to Corsica.

Actually, the referendum about Corsican autonomy has finally been voted only 2 years ago, and Corsicans have rejected it. As such, I guess Chevènement could go back in the government, but unfortunately, the majority has changed and the socialists aren't anymore in power !

 

[PantheraTigris2]

What about good ol' Scandinavia? Land of the Norsemen. Are they immune to all this immigration (mainly 'cause it's too d@mn cold up there!)?

I don't imagine too many Middle Easterners rubbing shoulders with the descendants of the Vikings...
<--- (smiley should have fair skin, blue eyes, and blondish hair)

 

[Babbler]

What about good ol' Scandinavia? Land of the Norsemen. Are they immune to all this immigration (mainly 'cause it's too d@mn cold up there!)?

If that is true, then not a single person would ever stay in Montreal.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

If that is true, then not a single person would ever stay in Montreal.

Montreal is several degees latitude further south than Paris (just checked the charts, don't bother - 45 vs 48). I fail to see your point.