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Paris : Olympic torch extinguished by Human Rights activists, events are cancelled

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Marla_Singer, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. Mise

    Mise isle of lucy

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    Any fundamentally harmless activity that draws attention to Chinese human rights abuses is a good thing in my books.
     
  2. sysyphus

    sysyphus So they tell me

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    The whole point of the Olympics is to be above politics, at least politics unreleated to the sports themselves. Those sorts of things cannot be avoided, but they have nothing to do with the behaviour of the Chinese government and should not be used as a pawn in world affairs.

    Of course, the realist in me is well aware of the human ability to take a good idea and ruin it. Doesn't mean one has to accept it.

    How in God's name did my first post even suggest that I thought it was about me? It wasn't even a response to any of your posts. :confused:
     
  3. Theige

    Theige American Baron

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    I wonder how strong the protests would be if the games were in the U.S. this year...

    What say the Londoners and Parisians?
     
  4. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Ah common ! If hundreds of cities and countries want to host the Olympics, it's not because they like better watching sport live than on TV. It's clearly for political reasons. And in the case of China, this is even more obvious.

    China has grown as an economical powerhouse, and now they want to grow as a political powerhouse. And those Olympic games, held in the Chinese capital city, is an obvious tool for this. Indeed, why have they chosen Beijing ? Why not Shanghai or Hong Kong ?

    I see this whole idea from the Chinese unique party to organize an Olympic torch travel all over the world as a provocation. Come on, a dictatorship parading in world democracies is an insult ! They shouldn't be surprised if people react to such a provocation.
     
  5. sysyphus

    sysyphus So they tell me

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    Indeed, they're such an economic powerhouse that disruption of the Olympics will do very little, if anything, to change their behaviour. Past Olympic disruptions have proven this including the boycotts of 1980 and 1984 as well as the massacre in 1972.

    These protests only punish the wrong people, they do nothing for the cause which they claim to support. In short they amount to alot of noise, alot of bother with very little substance.
     
  6. CaptainF

    CaptainF The Professional Poster

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    That's unfortunate.

    Oh well, you can always laugh at the activists, unable to accomplish anything...
     
  7. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    If these protests have been so succesful in Paris, it's because Parisians themselves expressed their opinion. It wasn't only Human Rights activists, but everyone. You tell me that it's meaningless to resist, and I tell you that it's not a reason for Western Democracies to renounce to free speech.
     
  8. Fifty

    Fifty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Free Tibet! Restore aristocratic theocracy!!!
     
  9. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Tibetans don't want independence. They want their cultural specificity to be recognized. The Tibetan culture is destroyed by Han Chinese settlers who are so numerous that the Tibetan population only represent a small minority in the capital of Lhassa.

    This is about freedom of expression. Having its identity being recognized is a basic right in a democracy. In China, Tibetans only want their culture to be tolerated.
     
  10. CaptainF

    CaptainF The Professional Poster

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    Cultures rise and fall, nothing new.
     
  11. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Nice but is this a reason to reject their right of free speech ? Don't accept people doing against others what you wouldn't like being done against you.
     
  12. Fifty

    Fifty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    So they're rasist monsters who want to remain segregated. How wonderful!
     
  13. CaptainF

    CaptainF The Professional Poster

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    Whos right of free-speech? The protesters? Fine. Tibetans? Well, they are asking for independence, so let them fight for it instead.

    The protests also won't effect anything. There are too many other (non-Chinese) interests invested in the Olympics to allow them to get derailed because of a few idealists.
     
  14. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Tibetans do not ask for independence. Dawgphood. You should better read about it before talking.

    And the fact it doesn't change anything doesn't mean it's not a provocation from the Chinese dictatorship to parade all over world democracies with a torch in the hand. There were thousands of cops "securing" that torch. Tell me how beautiful is this ? Just as if the Chinese Police state was imported to Paris the time of a parade.

    Sorry, but no. I cannot accept that. And I'm glad people have reacted.
     
  15. Zenon_pt

    Zenon_pt Civing on the real world

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    The Olympic torch extinguished???
    I realy don't like it. I'm pro-Tibet and pro-Olympic's! This is to ambiguous for me!!!

    IOC/COI give a vote of confidence to China, when they won the Olympic Organization to Beijing. But this past events didn't give them positive ways.

    The athletes don't deserve this kind of treatment. There others ways to express themselves with less radical means...

    For Zeus! Politics and Sports do not combine!
     
  16. sysyphus

    sysyphus So they tell me

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    Reaction is good, I just think it's pointed in the wrong direction.
     
  17. kryszcztov

    kryszcztov Deity

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    As someone obviously embracing Greek roots, I'm pro-Olympics. The period of the Olympics was a period of peace back then, and today the Chinese are triggering this period by continuously denying Human Rights in China and killing Tibetans in Tibet. They got it wrong obviously...

    So I'm pro-activist as well. I don't want people to boycott the Olympics this summer. But any action spoiling the oh so innocent party is good to me. And BTW I'm French, and I'm mad at the people representing France today (Bernard Laporte, Secretary for Youth and Sport, and this dude at the head of the French Olympic Commitee) : this is NOT an act against sport, or the athletes, or peace, or the torch, the symbol of peace... At most it is an act against "the torch guarded and extinguished by the Chinese officials". :D No, it is an act to express opposition against a hold-up : the Olympics are a symbol of peace and union, etc... but what is it good for if it is always spoiled by sponsors, corruption and greedy politicians ??????????????????????? Not. Much. Ooooh our French officials say it is very baaaad to attack a symbol of peace and act violently for the cause of Human Rights. Yeah, right, imagine our grandfathers peacefully demonstrating against the aristocrats and the foreigners in 1789... :lol: Human Rights have been won through battles, blood and active resistance.

    So yes, I love the original spirit of the Olympics blah blah blah, but there has already been Berlin 1936 and Mexico 1968, and now there will be Beijing 2008.
     
  18. Agent Valentine

    Agent Valentine Warlord

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    It's mildly amusing to see a bunch of kids mindlessly following a Hollywood trend. I doubt any of these "protestors" know anything about Tibet or China, they just read about it from some biased website on the internet and saw their friends doing it so they went along.

    I'm certain that none of them know of the Tibetans attacking innocent people, burning down public buildings, and killing people just for being Han. Congratulations, you're siding with terrorists. I guess when you pump money into their economy and try to develop Tibet into something other than a barren wasteland, it's called "genocide" in the West.
     
  19. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Even if you're right, at least those protestors know what democracy means. Something that from Qunming you have unfortunately no idea about.

    So you like those little cartoon cops preventing you to watch Youtube videos ?



    We don't.
    These protests aren't meant against Chinese people. They are meant against the unique party ruling your country. China may be big, but that doesn't justify the country to be ruled by corrupted bureaucrats sucking the ressources of the people. If China's economy grows, it is thanks to Chinese workers, not to the unique party.
     
  20. Agent Valentine

    Agent Valentine Warlord

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    If you knew anything about China you would know that punishments for corruption are very tough, and corrption is being stamped out. In fact, public protests against corruption take place in some parts of the country. You might not pick up on this, but whenever you read about some corporate officer or party official retiring from his post for "health reasons," he's usually been convicted of corruption.

    I would take you more seriously if you stopped trying to press your western ideals of pseudo-democracy onto other nations. Every time a nation does not have your kind of democracy, it is evil and we should hate its government. Beijing government has done much good for the people of China, and sometimes static leadership is a good thing, so long as the leader is a good one. He does not have to respond to silly public populism, does not have to cater to lobbyists, does not have to bow down to corporate interests in order to pay for another sham election that only the rich can run in. They can just run the country. Hu Jintao is a technocrat anyways, and the very last person you should accuse of corruption.

    Please get off your media bandwagon.
     

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