Partisans Need to be Fixed

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by GunsGermsandSteel, May 30, 2020.

  1. GunsGermsandSteel

    GunsGermsandSteel Warlord

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    It's came up before, but this issue seriously needs addressed. It is a genuinely warped game feature. It could be interesting but right now it just feels "off" or even broken. The fact that most experienced Civ 6 gamers on here simply say "just don't build neighborhoods" is enough testament that there is a real issue here. Just because there is a workaround doesn't mean the feature doesn't need to be revisited. And even those who use neighborhoods as 'spy traps' to counterspy are just exploiting a deeply flawed mechanic. Saying you'd rather have spies target neighborhoods isn't a good reason to not fix this problem.

    First off.
    The ability to recruit partisans should be tied intrinsically with loyalty. Why would people in a 100% loyal city rise up? It just makes zero sense. Furthermore, having it be dependent on loyalty would give a bit more depth to the mission. Loyalty would have to be 75 or below for the mission to even be available. First run the 'Foment unrest' mission, to reduce loyalty... THEN run 'Recruit partisans'.

    Secondarily, there's the issue of recruit PARTISANS spawning as TANKS!!!
    I seriously doubt that has never happened in the history of partisan activity. Even if partisans ever had tanks they were out dated or extremely limited. Where are military TANKS coming from in the 'burbs??? Honestly, partisans should be a unique unique unit. If the developers can't manage that then it should just be standard 'Infantry'. Never Tanks, Modern Tanks, or Mechanized infantry.

    It's flawed, it just doesn't make sense, it isn't thematic, it LOOKS WRONG, and it encourages unintended gameplay choices. Not to mention, it could be fairly easy to fix.
     
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  2. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    Honestly I don't much understand how this particular gripe is so widespread.

    I build Neighborhoods in pretty much every city in pretty much every game. If I get partisans recruited more than twice in a game, it's a surprise.

    Since you pretty much always have walls by the time neighborhoods come up, they're very easily taken care of.

    yes they'll pillage a few tiles. maybe. But how is that worse than any disaster exactly ?

    I feel this is blown out of proportion. Sorry.
     
  3. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    It's more that Neighborhoods are borderline worthless and any disadvantage makes them silly.

    I would move the spy operation to the city center and only in less than happy cities.
     
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  4. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    I agree, I think this is overstated by a bunch of people who stopped building neighborhoods a long time ago and didn't realize the frequency has been adjusted. It just doesn't happen that much anymore. I maybe see partisans once a game in my territory and I put up neighborhoods all over the place.

    Enemy spies are far more likely to target my governors than recruit partisans.

    That said, there are some things I would change. They definitely shouldn't spawn top-of-the-line units when they do spawn. I'd rather just see them have a unique line of partisan units. And sure, I wish neighborhoods in general were more useful. But the people who act like this happens dozens of times in a game are exaggerating.
     
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  5. AsH2

    AsH2 Prince

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    Partisans are misunderstood heathens that just need to be preached into good behaviour..
     
  6. Truronian

    Truronian Quite unfamiliar Retired Moderator

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    I think some of the spy missions could really do with a rework. Partisans are annoying, but they're not really a major threat by the time neighbourhoods role around and the AI is really just wasting its own spy capacity when it focuses on them.
     
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  7. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    ...by an apostle with the heathen conversion promotion ;)
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I will build one and keep boadica or a heathen conversion apostle nearby sometimes as @Pfeffersack says. it gives me a eureka for the neighbourhood ... but as said by @tedhebert it just don’t happen often

    I have said plenty of times, if you do not like it, don’t build them. I am fine with them
     
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  9. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    It's just annoying and a waste of time.
     
  10. The Civs 6

    The Civs 6 King

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    The flavor of them is wrong for two reasons. First, suburbs aren't the place where you get people whipped up. They are where people go to avoid that kind of stuff. Second, how do partisans whipped up ad hoc like that get advanced weapons (even weapons more advanced than what the Civ with the spy has?)

    The second point is especially glaring because previous Civs - in having specific partisan units - had already solved this issue.
     
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  11. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    The surveillance promotion is handy when building neighborhoods. I mostly get annoyed when the partisans spawn in cities of one of my allies and take out my traders.
     
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  12. FenrisWolf456

    FenrisWolf456 Chieftain

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    Well, I believe the idea was to give a spy mission to each district type.

    But really, this one should be for Encampments (which I believe have no spy mission, along with Aerodrome), and would be more flavourful as Incite Coup or somesuch ... that would then explain top of the line partisan units. And while I can understand the disconnect of rabble running around in the latest tank models, wouldn't earlier/weaker units be even more of an annoyance/waste of time? Perhaps, as suggested, specific partisan units with their own abilities, such as stealth, so that they can more effectively disrupt things with pillaging.

    You could then move the Foment Unrest mission out to the neighbourhood. Though I still find that one to be the most useless of missions. The only time it's ever been useful for me was to speed up a city already declining my way by a couple of turns, that still took far too long as the AI kept switch-hitting Governors in and removing them before I could Neutralize.
     
  13. Deadly Dog

    Deadly Dog Prince

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    How about....partisans are a city centre target but only occur in cities that have neighborhoods? Firstly, it makes it a bit easier to defend as the city centre is also likely to be adjacent to other districts that like having a counterspy. But it also makes sense historically...you let society stratify and make nice places for rich people to live and the city centres are ripe for agitation. maybe city parks or other improvements can ameliorate this.
     
  14. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Warlord

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    Three things:
    -It dissuades players from building Neighborhoods, which are already bad enough that they don't need any further reason not to build them.
    -The AI likes (liked?) to do it, which means they're not spending their spies on a mission that would actually benefit them (or at least hurt you through any means other than maybe annoying you).
    -Purely in terms of flavor, I'm not sure why a bunch of suburbanites have tanks handy.

    It isn't a problem because it's unfair/hard/crippling, it's a problem because it's just bad design. It makes an already bad district marginally worse, it makes the AI marginally worse, and it makes the "sim" aspect feel even more gamey than it already is. Doubly so if you're parking Boudicca or the Jehovah's Witness brigade next door to exploit it.
     
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  15. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer King

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    The only thing that really angers me with partisans is how they won't do anything when I spawn them in enemy territory, to the enemy! I have spawned them in neighboring territory and watched as they have made their way to ME to be a nuisance. Whoever programmed the partisans clearly didn't know what they were doing. They should pillage, capture trade routes, and then focus on destroying cities
     
  16. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    FWIW, you can take advantage of this too. Build your neighborhoods right along the border next to a weaker neighbor and even if the AI recruits partisans in your territory they'll run in the opposite direction.
     
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  17. ColdClimate

    ColdClimate Prince

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    Remember back in civII when partisans were actually a distinct unit (a slightly weaker modern infantry IIRC)? And they spawned in loyal cities after an enemy took captured them? Your own little guerrilla army just to balance out the aggressive civs in the later era. I do miss them.
     
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  18. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    If that's one of the main gripes, I'd say we have to get rid of religion too ! Nothing makes the AI bad as much as religion !!!
     
  19. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    If you do not have heathen conversion, you can always distract the partisans by keeping a great person around... (unused great musician most commonly). They will always move to attack this unit, and the unit simply returns to the city. Next turn put this unit out again--rinse and repeat. If you have two, the two barbs will never get to pillage anything and you can fire on them slowly with impunity.

    As for trade routes getting plundered, why aren't you taking "reform the coinage" bonus? (and why hasn't the game ended before that bonus become obsolete?) It is by far better than the other industrial-modern bonuses (in Rennaissance monumentality is still better).
     

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