Patrick Kennedy's Crusade

Yes. Yes, it is fine.

Why would this be at all in question? The stigma associated with mental illness is significant and causes a great many people who suffer from mental illness to avoid seeking treatment least they be tarred with some psychotherapeutic brush. The same with addiction. People are legitimately frightened of how they will be treated by others if it comes out that they are seeking psychological help.
 
he wants to jail people for pot while he knows from personal experience how the mentally ill often self-medicate, being labelled and treated as a criminal is quite a stigma.

I'm sorry, maybe the link didn't mention what I'm talking about ;)

He was on with Chris Matthews (msnbc) and was asked about Washington and Colorado, he opposed legalizing pot.
 
he wants to jail people for pot while he knows from personal experience how the mentally ill often self-medicate, being labelled and treated as a criminal is quite a stigma.

I'm sorry, maybe the link didn't mention what I'm talking about ;)

He was on with Chris Matthews (msnbc) and was asked about Washington and Colorado, he opposed legalizing pot.

Addicts, including former and recovering addicts, as well as their families, are intimately aware of how much harm drug addiction causes people. It seems perfectly reasonable, and indeed morally praiseworthy, that someone who has a previous substance abuse problem would be adamant about supporting a public policy that they believe prevents drug abuse in others.

Furthermore, marijuana has been linked with aggravating depression in its users. Consequently, it seems reasonably for someone who wants to help people overcome depression would also want to work to limit the use of marijuana.

Given these facts, I do not see it as dissonant that Kennedy wants to take a stand on limiting the use of marijuana.
 
Have to side with Patrick Kennedy and BvBPL on this one. Many former drug addicts are particularly aware of the harm of addiction and realize there can be significant problems from self medication. Stigma is a problem, but legalizing Pot [And I won't get started on the Drug War, because I wouldn't ever stop] coupled with current conditions doesn't change conditions for the better.
 
Not kosher. The Pope did not authorize this crusade.
 
Addicts, including former and recovering addicts, as well as their families, are intimately aware of how much harm drug addiction causes people. It seems perfectly reasonable, and indeed morally praiseworthy, that someone who has a previous substance abuse problem would be adamant about supporting a public policy that they believe prevents drug abuse in others.

Furthermore, marijuana has been linked with aggravating depression in its users. Consequently, it seems reasonably for someone who wants to help people overcome depression would also want to work to limit the use of marijuana.

Given these facts, I do not see it as dissonant that Kennedy wants to take a stand on limiting the use of marijuana.

If you also want to ban alcohol, I will listen. :)
 
Addicts, including former and recovering addicts, as well as their families, are intimately aware of how much harm drug addiction causes people. It seems perfectly reasonable, and indeed morally praiseworthy, that someone who has a previous substance abuse problem would be adamant about supporting a public policy that they believe prevents drug abuse in others.

Furthermore, marijuana has been linked with aggravating depression in its users. Consequently, it seems reasonably for someone who wants to help people overcome depression would also want to work to limit the use of marijuana.

Given these facts, I do not see it as dissonant that Kennedy wants to take a stand on limiting the use of marijuana.

Yeh, it's just that you can get addicted to marijuana at the same level you can get addicted to chocolate.

There is no such thing as "recovering marijuana addicts". It's not something that will get you physically addicted - the addiction is purely psychological, such as a craving you might get for chocolate or dog treats, or whatever.

Sure, there's bound to be a couple people who totally overdo it and need to have an intervention. Smoking 5 grams of the stuff a day, every day is definitely a problem. You just can't get addicted to it like you can to heroin, alcohol, nicotine, or caffeine.

Those addictions you can *feel* physically.
 
He's completely clueless:

“That possession or use of a small amount of marijuana be a civil offense subject to a mandatory health screening and marijuana-education program. Referrals to treatment and/or social-support services should be made if needed. The individual could even be monitored for 6-12 months in a probation program designed to prevent further drug use.”

Tvert said it would be more useful to force alcohol or tobacco users into treatment. “The science is clear that marijuana is less harmful to users than alcohol or tobacco,” he said.

“It makes no sense to force adults into treatment for something they don’t have a problem with,” added Vicente.
 
Yeh, it's just that you can get addicted to marijuana at the same level you can get addicted to chocolate.

There is no such thing as "recovering marijuana addicts". It's not something that will get you physically addicted - the addiction is purely psychological, such as a craving you might get for chocolate or dog treats, or whatever.

Sure, there's bound to be a couple people who totally overdo it and need to have an intervention. Smoking 5 grams of the stuff a day, every day is definitely a problem. You just can't get addicted to it like you can to heroin, alcohol, nicotine, or caffeine.

Those addictions you can *feel* physically.

Marijuana abuse is destructive. It ruins people. Marijuana use aggravates underlying psychological issues and interferes with the cognitive development of adolescents.

That marijuana is "merely" psychological addictive, as opposed to physically addictive, doesn't change those facts.

Because marijuana abuse is potentially devastating, it seems well founded that a person with addiction problems who is otherwise involved in speaking out about substance abuse has a reasonable interest in preventing the abuse of marijuana.

Really, whether or not marijuana is addictive isn't at issue and argues to the contrary are red herrings.
 
Marijuana abuse is destructive. It ruins people. Marijuana use aggravates underlying psychological issues and interferes with the cognitive development of adolescents.

That marijuana is "merely" psychological addictive, as opposed to physically addictive, doesn't change those facts.

Because marijuana abuse is potentially devastating, it seems well founded that a person with addiction problems who is otherwise involved in speaking out about substance abuse has a reasonable interest in preventing the abuse of marijuana.

Really, whether or not marijuana is addictive isn't at issue and argues to the contrary are red herrings.

So marijuana is bad for some people. What about alcohol?
 
Marijuana abuse is destructive. It ruins people.

Dude.... Anything abuse can be destructive. Have you ever seen a heroin addict, an alcoholic, or an obese person?

It's a matter of moderation. Even an excess of carrots could technically kill you.
 
Dude.... Anything abuse can be destructive. Have you ever seen a heroin addict, an alcoholic, or an obese person?

It's a matter of moderation. Even an excess of carrots could technically kill you.

Or chocolate for that matter.
 
So marijuana is bad for some people. What about alcohol?

Its bad for certain people too. I support any restrictions against Marijuana partly because of how bad addiction can be. When consumed in smaller amounts danger/risk is less prevalent sure, but the question is can society handle Marijuana atm?

I don't think so. Prohibition was a success because it cut down drastically the number of alcoholics and while general consumption increased in certain areas, the amount of alcohol consumed per person shrank drastically. Marijuana is glorified here in the US - that is where the problem is. We need more politicians like Patrick Kennedy to create a "true" anti-marijuana movement. Had I been alive during the Prohibition movement I would have likewise been supportive of it. If society became ready for it - I would have much less a problem of having any Marijuana legal. In the meantime Marijuana is going through early "opium fascination" cycles - its widely glorified and overuse is rampant causing many addicts. Our culture can't afford fully legal Marijuana at the moment
 
Marijuana abuse is destructive. It ruins people. Marijuana use aggravates underlying psychological issues and interferes with the cognitive development of adolescents.

That marijuana is "merely" psychological addictive, as opposed to physically addictive, doesn't change those facts.

Because marijuana abuse is potentially devastating, it seems well founded that a person with addiction problems who is otherwise involved in speaking out about substance abuse has a reasonable interest in preventing the abuse of marijuana.

Really, whether or not marijuana is addictive isn't at issue and argues to the contrary are red herrings.
What do you actually know about it other than what you have been told by those who are completely clueless about the topic?

Marijuana use literally "ruins" nobody and isn't "potentially devastating" at all except to those whose lives have been ruined by the draconian drug laws that date back to trying to control uppity Hispanics in the Southwest in the early 1900s.

It won't be long before it is completely legal in the US once again. What are your excuses going to be then?
 
Can't be crazy or anything, he's got a D next to his name.
 
If that were only true...
 
What a joke. A drunk dopefiend whose family made lots of money off of Prohibition is now calling for prohibition to be maintained with weed. Well, I guess if I were him, I too would think that prohibition was a pretty cool concept. No surprise that he's also teamed up with professional idiots David Frum and Kevin Sabet to complete the dunce brigade. I mean, the guy was even smart enough to start his organization in Denver, of all places. :crazyeye:

Yes. Yes, it is fine.

Why would this be at all in question? The stigma associated with mental illness is significant and causes a great many people who suffer from mental illness to avoid seeking treatment least they be tarred with some psychotherapeutic brush. The same with addiction. People are legitimately frightened of how they will be treated by others if it comes out that they are seeking psychological help.

What does this have to do with smoking pot?

Addicts, including former and recovering addicts, as well as their families, are intimately aware of how much harm drug addiction causes people.

I'm sure they're also intimately aware of just how well criminalizing drugs worked...or not.

It seems perfectly reasonable, and indeed morally praiseworthy, that someone who has a previous substance abuse problem would be adamant about supporting a public policy that they believe prevents drug abuse in others.

Considering this man's personal history, it seems to me condescending and hypocritical that he desires to paint anyone who smokes marijuana as an addict that needs "reeducation." He completely ignores the fact that most people who smoke marijuana aren't addicts, and are probably more educated about weed's effects than someone who got wasted off pills and booze while driving a car.

Furthermore, marijuana has been linked with aggravating depression in its users. Consequently, it seems reasonably for someone who wants to help people overcome depression would also want to work to limit the use of marijuana.

You know what's really depressing? Getting arrested and jailed for having a bag of pot. Feels bad, man. :(

Given these facts, I do not see it as dissonant that Kennedy wants to take a stand on limiting the use of marijuana.

He doesn't want to limit the use of marijuana, he wants to keep it illegal. As we've seen over the past 75 years, illegality has done nothing to limit marijuana's popularity.

Marijuana abuse is destructive. It ruins people.

Scary words, but can you back them up with substance?

Marijuana use aggravates underlying psychological issues and interferes with the cognitive development of adolescents.

Unproven links at best.

But even if they were true, it would be more reason to legalize marijuana: to keep it away from kids. You realize of course that drug dealers don't ask for ID, correct?

That marijuana is "merely" psychological addictive, as opposed to physically addictive, doesn't change those facts.

Actually, yes it does. Marijuana isn't any more addictive than video games and is in fact less addictive than coffee.

We already tolerate lots of legal drugs that are both far more harmful and addictive.

Because marijuana abuse is potentially devastating, it seems well founded that a person with addiction problems who is otherwise involved in speaking out about substance abuse has a reasonable interest in preventing the abuse of marijuana.

No it doesn't. Such a premise only makes sense if you think marijuana is a similar category of drugs to cocaine, alcohol and opiates (drugs which Patrick Kennedy has abused). The abuse of marijuana pales in comparison to the abuse of any of those drugs. Why isn't Patrick Kennedy calling for the restriction of these much more harmful drugs? Prescription drug abuse in this country has reached dizzying heights.

He's a condescending, busybody hypocrite with enough ego to think he's smarter than the voters of two states.

Really, whether or not marijuana is addictive isn't at issue and argues to the contrary are red herrings.

Actually those things are at issue, as is the fact that keeping marijuana illegal as Patrick Kennedy proposes would do nothing to solve the "problem" of marijuana abuse.

Its bad for certain people too. I support any restrictions against Marijuana partly because of how bad addiction can be.

So you think anyone using marijuana is a bad thing? Maybe you've forgotten about the medical patients who have been hurt the most by this outdated prohibition.

Not to mention you're ridiculous assumption that everyone who smokes marijuana becomes addicted.

When consumed in smaller amounts danger/risk is less prevalent sure, but the question is can society handle Marijuana atm?

Society has been "handling" marijuana quite well since at least the 60's. :lol:

I don't think so. Prohibition was a success because it cut down drastically the number of alcoholics and while general consumption increased in certain areas, the amount of alcohol consumed per person shrank drastically.

Yes! Let's completely ignore the wondrous effects it had on violent crime, bad booze, corruption and a lot of other things! While we're at it, let's also ignore how countries like Portugal have reduced crime, disease, legal costs and overall drug use by decriminalizing all drugs! Woohah!

Marijuana is glorified here in the US - that is where the problem is.

Really? I don't see marijuana advertised on television like prescription drugs and booze. Whenever I see it on television or media it's always about how bad it is.

Oh, wait! I bet it's that damn rap music. Kids these days...

We need more politicians like Patrick Kennedy to create a "true" anti-marijuana movement.

If that's the best they can do for an anti-pot movement, I'd have to say keep it up! It makes for an entertaining sideshow while everyone else comes to their senses.

Had I been alive during the Prohibition movement I would have likewise been supportive of it.

Doubtful.

If society became ready for it - I would have much less a problem of having any Marijuana legal.

Yeah, screw those med patients, they can just spend more money on ten different pills to replace pot.

In the meantime Marijuana is going through early "opium fascination" cycles - its widely glorified and overuse is rampant causing many addicts. Our culture can't afford fully legal Marijuana at the moment

Can society afford illegal marijuana at the moment?
 
So you think anyone using marijuana is a bad thing? Maybe you've forgotten about the medical patients who have been hurt the most by this outdated prohibition.

Not to mention you're ridiculous assumption that everyone who smokes marijuana becomes addicted.

Society has been "handling" marijuana quite well since at least the 60's. :lol:


Yes! Let's completely ignore the wondrous effects it had on violent crime, bad booze, corruption and a lot of other things! While we're at it, let's also ignore how countries like Portugal have reduced crime, disease, legal costs and overall drug use by decriminalizing all drugs! Woohah!!

Really? I don't see marijuana advertised on television like prescription drugs and booze. Whenever I see it on television or media it's always about how bad it is.

Oh, wait! I bet it's that damn rap music. Kids these days...

If that's the best they can do for an anti-pot movement, I'd have to say keep it up! It makes for an entertaining sideshow while everyone else comes to their senses.


Doubtful.

Yeah, screw those med patients, they can just spend more money on ten different pills to replace pot.

Can society afford illegal marijuana at the moment?

Well I am one of those kids (relatively, only starting out in college here ;)) But doesn't change the fact I would have still been in support of prohibition had I been alive then.

Cirrhosis fell 2/3 from its high point prior to prohibition and alcoholism did fall drastically enough (estimates vary from 40-50%) to the point where it no longer became a major issue and in part the Prohibition movement became a victim of its own success (and later demagoguery has tarnished it since). The number of alcohol related deaths curbed to their lowest points during Prohibition and when it was repealed, alcoholism only marginally increased again - but the stigma and movement had worked.
=======

And decriminalization =/= legalization. If you get caught in Portugal you have to have frequent meetings with psychologists, doctors, legal and social workers, all to rehabilitate you. And I am half Guatemalan - I have had family affected by this drug war. I have family that lives in a country effected by and in large parts ruled by gangs. I have an aunt who was forced to sell her school since she couldn't pay off the local tax to the group of the district, I prefer not to go into the "Drug Wars" like I said, but yes you are right - Prohibition can foster violence. But it doesn't necessarily mean its the cause or by legalizing it that it will go away. In the late 1910s cities were filled with violence prior to Prohibition and while perhaps prohibition helped add to it - its not like violence disappeared (or as I said started) with prohibitions leaving/coming.
 
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