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PBEM - Double Team game strategy discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tyrghen, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. Port16

    Port16 Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
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    372
    Location:
    Colorado Springs Colorado
    How are you guys outlining the maps like that?
     
  2. DNK

    DNK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
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    3,562
    Location:
    Saigon
    Well, I take a screenshot in globe view, paste it and all that of course.

    Then I copy a portion and paste it into a new file. Then I use the box tool in MSPaint and hold shift to make it a proper 1:1 box and drag it out to three tiles x 3 - I do this next to the copied thing just to get a feel for the tiles. Then I select it and copy it. Then after copying it, but before pasting a new one I go to stretch/skew and add an extra 67% to one dimension.

    Then I paste, stretch skew that by +67% to the other dimension and overlap them. Then I quickly erase the extra lines on the inside.

    Then I copy&P the whole thing and decrease it to 20% on both dimensions and plop that in the middle.

    Copy & paste the whole thing back into the original.
     
  3. Port16

    Port16 Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
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    372
    Location:
    Colorado Springs Colorado
    Thanks DNK! That explains it.
     
  4. DNK

    DNK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
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    Location:
    Saigon
    Decision time.

    Update: London now pop 4, York currently building a worker so it's still 1 (oh, I founded York). Metal Casting is still ~6 turns to go.

    Oracle done in 1 turn or so! That means we have to pick a tech (assuming we aren't beat to it, which is doubtful this early since the AI usually waits a bit to start wondering).

    I think the choices are:
    Monarchy
    Code of Laws
    Metal Casting
    Mathematics
    Alphabet
    Compass
    Horseback Riding
    Theology

    This brings up a big question: Maths or Laws?

    I plan on building a forge and then the Pyramids (or maybe just skipping to the Pyramids first if it's faster), and could use the +50% chop bonus for quick building the Pyramids. I count at least 6 forests I can chop around london for 40:hammers: without math = 240:hammers: which will speed up the building by about 50%, but it will still take about 25 turns this way. OR I can get maths and those 6 forests will give me 60:hammers: which will give me 360:hammers:, or 80% of the total needed for the Pyramids. The first way makes it a 25 turn build, the second a 10 turn build. In fact, I won't be able to chop all the forests for the second method so I'll have some left over for that forge, which I will need since I'm going after a GE strat for the early game here.

    Caste system will not be useful anyway for some time, since London is still growing and I'm counting on wonders for my early GPs. I only have two cities so courthouses aren't necessary. A free religion could be a great boon, but then again I find it hard simply to spread a single religion, nonetheless 2 or 3. But we're isolated, so the extra temple and monastery options would be very nice to have.

    So, the question is:
    more temples/monasteries/gold
    OR
    a MUCH faster buildup for London

    The GEs we get can whip out other wonders and/or give London a huge production boost for later wonders and infrastructure. It can end up as both a GP farm AND a production house, a real star of a city. But then we will probably lose Confucianism and be stuck with just one religion, one +1 :) and one +10%:science: build for our two civs.

    I vote for maths, but I'd like to hear your guys' opinions, especially Ulfang's.
     
  5. Tyrghen

    Tyrghen Warlord

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    174
    Location:
    Belgium
    Huhu, you guys are pacing very fast :)

    Myself I lost a few turns to my settler due to a wrong choice in a worker order (cottaging instead of just chopping). But now I'm trying to get that back.

    Since the area to the north-east of me is busy with 3 AIs, I'd like to put my towns out asap before they come and take my land. So I think I'll go on for settlers full throttle until I hit 5 cities.

    The current dotmap I have is here :
    Spoiler :


    In Blue are my two cities. The one to the east was meant to avoid Hatchy from developping in my direction and I think it worked since she decided to go establish herself north.

    Now I'm wondering if I should go for the town in Cyan (light blue) which will be another slow developper until I reach calendar or if I should settle for the better Purple then Red dots. Thing is, if I don't found the Cyan town, I think that terrain is pretty much lost for me since Hatchy is a pretty fast developper.

    Your advices would be appreciated :)

    Catch you all later.

    PS : Sorry for being not very participative at the moment but I am buried down under work and I barely catch up with everything I need to do... hopefully should get better as our game advances :)
     
  6. DNK

    DNK Member

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    I'd need a blank map to see what I'd do. Also, it'd be nice to see more of what's up the north coast since that would dictate placement around there. I think you're correct to develop fairly vertically, since most of the land to the west, although well resourced, is pretty dry and crappy.

    I might consider shifting cyan one tile to the east. This isn't because it will be better land necessarily (actually worse since you lose 2 tiles to mountaints), but because it both gives you more land to fit another city to its west and it would discourage Hatty from placing something in the considerable dead space in the middle there. It's wise to give some border space between you and Hatty, though, so I like that. I wouldn't worry too much about the mountains since it will probably be a long time until you grow large enough to where that will be an issue, and by then you should be expanding to the point where two missed tiles won't matter.

    I'm thinking shifting that city east one and the purple city south one would give you a nice production city with the banana, iron, and grassland hills. The purple city looks to be a commerce town, so it doesn't really need two food resources anyway.

    I'd also consider shifting the red city east. It has cow and plenty of grassland, so it should be able to be a strong commerce city without the corn. And that leaves the much-needed corn for the drier city you could build to its west. Shifting it east one tile doesn't seem to change the overall utility of the land much, save the loss of the corn.

    But overall you've done a good job of avoiding marginal terrain (NY is so-so, but strategic), trying to place really good cities, and catch plenty of resources too.

    I think Civil Service is going to have to be a priority for you guys. You're in a position where you're probably going to have to be fighting your way to victory and your production cities are going to need linkable farms ASAP.
     
  7. Tyrghen

    Tyrghen Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Belgium
    Well, I've sent a scout to clear what's on my north border, but I expect to only find our aztec friend waiting for him... Since it seems he is developping to the west (one of his town converted to judaism so I can see him there).

    I had considered shifting the cyan town, but it won't be enough to prevent our egyptian friend from placing a city in between and I 'm not sure if I'm that close to so many of her towns that I'll be able to keep my cultural border at a fair distance from myself. At least the mountains bring me some cover and delay a direct attack from that side.

    I'll just try to pop my borders asap by beelining to Drama since I should have dyes for my theatres. This should give me a good long term advantage. I think that strong and large cultural borders are very important in winning a war :)

    I was tempted to put the purple dot in range of the iron, but it would leave a pretty large gap between my towns and it will take a long time for my borders to close that gap.
    Especially since I should be working on wonders and I'm stuck in settler mode to bring up asap as many good towns as I can in the fertile land. So my borders popping will be really slow until I reach drama.

    To be honest I really would have preferred a much smaller border to cover :p

    New York is a crappy town, which will be VERY slow to develop, but I expect to be really pressured there and on Cyan town by the attacks from the north. Though, I'll try to chop-out a missionary asap to convert the egyptian capital and bring my two closest neighbours into the light of my faith :)
    But I wanted that town for 4 practical reasons :
    1) Denial of copper and that iron for egyptians.
    2) Grab the marble I'll need for the great library
    3) Have a strong fort on my border to defend from incoming attacks of the egyptians.
    4) Having a pressuring outpost on the egyptian capital. I expect Hatchy to develop to the south too, which would break her land in two and deny her one of her strongest cities if I take her capital.

    Now as you mentionned aswell, my land to the west is very dry indeed... which is why I wanted to to expand north asap and grab good towns. But I don't want to expand north above cyan town because it would make my land too large to defend properly.
    Even if I'm rather used to defend my cities through good whipping and the like, I know from experience that a large front is the only thing I don't want...

    Regarding the red dot town, I indeed planned in the first place to put it to the east in a previous dotmap. But someone mentionned it would make two mid-range cities rather than one powerful.
    And he's not totally wrong. I have 6 hills in that red dot town, 3 grassland, 2 plain and 1 tundra hill. Plus 2 river grassland. With all that I can make that red dot a good military pump if I'm lucky enough to have one of those hills to pop a new metal or coal later on.
    Plus I can make workshops on grassland and workshop every tile to make it a very strong production city. Which wouldn't be a bad thing since our land is very crowded and I expect Port16 to be at war very fast with a Mongol-Syrian team as neighbours...

    Ack.. I haven't been so verbose in a long time :) Well, usually, the early town placement is where I put the most thoughts :) I'll take advantage of this game to try and improve my GP playing.
     
  8. DNK

    DNK Member

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    Pyramids are going to (hopefully) be completed in 1 turn. This begs the question for our team: what to switch to?

    Since I'm going with a hybrid economy, I think Representation is vital in the long-run, but for the time being it probably won't be needed as I'll be diving into the production of the Great Library (the race is on!) next and won't be shifting London to a proper GP farm until its (hopeful) completion.

    Hereditary Rule would be nice. I could build up London to 8 pop while working on the library combo, then shift to Rep once I was ready.

    I think moving to Organized Religion instead of Slavery for the free civic switch makes sense. I don't really use the whip (probably to my detriment), and the +25% build speed will be huge for speeding up the library build, and will be useful since I'm clearly in infrastructure mode right now with no enemies in sight.

    Also I popped a priest on the inter-turn. I will be settling him in London, as per my earlier plans to build up its production through GP/Es. A few more GPs and London will be a huge gold city also with the shrine income on top.

    I'm cottaging York's river and am building a worker in the newly-settled Oxford. I will probably put him to work cottaging also since I think I've got enough food with 4 floodplains in the radius.
     
  9. Kwibuss

    Kwibuss Warlord

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    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Wow a long term game this is :D
     
  10. popejubal

    popejubal Emperor

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    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    My typical strategy fot the Pyramids is to not switch at the start of the turn so that I can examine all of the options carefully. I then get distracted by something and don't make the change at all until several centuries later. Have you considered going this route?

    It might not be the optimum strategy, but it works for me. :)
     

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