Peace in Mogadishu?

Che Guava

The Juicy Revolutionary
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Hali-town,
(Possibly) good news from the 'other war':



Somalia agrees to talks with Islamists

BAIDOA, Somalia (Reuters) - Somalia's interim government has agreed to new talks with the country's powerful Islamists, a senior official said on Tuesday, reviving some hope of a negotiated end to the crisis in the Horn of Africa country.

"We will go to Khartoum without any preconditions," said Abdirizak Adam, interim President Abdullahi Yusuf's chief of staff.

He was speaking after U.N. special envoy Francois Lonseny Fall met Yusuf in his base in the provincial town of Baidoa and asked the government to attend talks in the Sudanese capital on Aug 1-2. It was not immediately known if the Islamists would also agree to attend.

Talks to prevent a standoff between the two sides from spiralling into war broke down on July 22, when the Islamists pulled out because of a reported incursion into Somalia by Ethiopian troops to defend the fragile interim government.

Fall's visit came a day after the African Union (AU) urged the U.N. Security Council to speed up plans to ease an arms embargo on Somalia to allow foreign peacekeepers to deploy.

The appeal followed an agreement by the AU and the east African regional body IGAD to send troops to help secure peace in Somalia.

The plan has been repeatedly rejected by the Islamists, who control Mogadishu and a large swathe of southern Somalia after defeating U.S.-backed secular warlords early in June.

link-a-doole-doo

Here's hoping that the islamists attend the conference and that some kind of resolution can come out of this...
 
Indeed. Also how is there any information regarding the humanitarian situation and such there? CNN even with its special Eye on Africa week has failed to report anything at all about the situation here.
 
silver 2039 said:
Indeed. Also how is there any information regarding the humanitarian situation and such there? CNN even with its special Eye on Africa week has failed to report anything at all about the situation here.

Here's the latest I couyld find:

682 excecuted in Somalia

Mogadishu - Unknown gunmen have killed 682 civilians - including a foreign journalist - in executions over the past year in Somalia, a local human rights group said in a report on Sunday.

The killings took place largely in the Somali capital, Mogadishu.

Some were for unknown reasons, others due to clan differences, said the report by the Dr Ismael Jumale Human Rights Centre.

Included in the reports of 682 killings is the slaying of Swedish journalist Martin Adler as he filmed a protest in Mogadishu in June.

An unidentified gunman shot Adler in the back.

The report covers human rights violations between July 22 2005, and July 20 2006.

link
 
Here are some disturbing news reports:

Somalia's Islamists decline talks
Islamic courts controlling the Somali capital will not take part in talks with the government unless Ethiopian troops leave Somalia, an official says.

Earlier, Somalia's interim government agreed unconditionally to hold peace talks with the Islamists.

Talks to try and avert conflict between the two sides broke down last week.

The Union of Islamic Courts has vowed to expel Ethiopian troops who are deployed in Baidoa to assist the weak transitional Somali government.

"There is a condition for talks: as long as the enemy is in our country it will be impossible to sit down together and hold talks (with the transitional government)," Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys, Chairman of the Islamic courts' consultative council told the BBC Somali service.

"We want the Ethiopian government, which has invaded Somalia and threatened Somalia, to leave our country, so that we can hold talks."

Ethiopia is a firm ally of the transitional government, which has little influence outside the town of Baidoa where it is based.

UN envoy Francois Fall met leaders of the Union of Islamic Courts in Mogadishu.

Earlier he met representatives of the transitional government in Baidoa and received an assurance that the government would participate in talks in the Sudanese captal, Khartoum.

"We will go to Khartoum without any preconditions," President Abdullahi Yusuf's chief of staff, Abdirizak Adam, was quoted by reporters as saying.

The talks were due to begin at the weekend, but the government refused to attend and the UIC delegates walked out in protest at the presence of Ethiopian troops in Somalia.

Anybody who sides with Ethiopia will be considered a traitor
Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed
Senior UIC leader

On Monday, thousands of Somalis staged a rally in Mogadishu calling on Ethiopian troops to leave.

The demonstrators burnt Ethiopian flags at a protest in the capital.

As well as Baidoa, Ethiopian troops have also been seen in another central town, Wajid.

Ethiopia and the transitional government have refused to confirm Ethiopian troops are on Somali soil.

Islamic leader Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed told the rally that forces loyal to the Islamic courts were ready and would be allowed to fight Ethiopians when appropriate.

Ethiopia, a long-term ally of President Abdullahi Yusuf, has warned the Islamic courts not to make any further military advance on Baidoa.

In recent weeks the Islamic courts have wrested control of much of southern Somalia from many of the warlords who divided up the country into rival fiefdoms following the overthrow of Siad Barre in 1991.

They appear to be making considerable progress in imposing law and order in the capital.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/5212600.stm

Published: 2006/07/25 15:35:36 GMT

© BBC MMVI
Somali World Cup viewers killed
Two people are reported dead after Islamist gunmen in central Somalia opened fire in a cinema where people were watching a banned World Cup match.

The cinema owner and a young girl were reportedly killed by militia loyal to the Union of Islamic Courts, who seized control of parts of Somalia last month.

The courts have introduced Sharia law, including in some areas a World Cup broadcast ban.

Somalia has had no effective central government since 1992.

According to reports on a Somali news network, gunmen arrived to close down the cinema in the town of Dhuusa Marreeb in central Galgadud district, where a crowd had gathered to watch the Germany-Italy World Cup semi-final.

Some of the football fans began to protest and according to reports, the gunmen fired in the air in an attempt to disperse them.

When this failed, shots were fired at the demonstrators and two people were killed.

The introduction of Islamic law, or Sharia, has included in some areas a ban on cinemas and on broadcasts of World Cup games because they have carried advertisements for alcohol.

The courts now control much of southern Somalia, introducing a level of civil administration and justice which the country has not seen for the past 15 years.

The BBC's Hassan Barise says in more than a decade of Islamic justice in the capital, there have been more than 16 amputations - the punishment for theft - in that time.

But there have been no confirmed amputations or stonings to death - for murder or rape - in the month since the Islamists seized the capital.

One of the new Islamist leaders, Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys has called on the interim government to impose Sharia law but our correspondent says his colleagues have offered assurances they do not want a Taleban-style state.

Dangerous

Meanwhile, regional diplomats are meeting the interim government in Baidoa to discuss the possible deployment of a regional peacekeeping force to the fragmented country.

Headed by President Abdullahi Yusuf, the government is confined to the town and is unable to relocate to the capital, Mogadishu, now under control of the Islamic courts.

The diplomats are from the Arab League, African Union and the East African regional organisation, Igad, which last month said it intended to send a peacekeeping force of Ugandan and Sudanese troops.

But the Islamists say they are opposed to the deployment of any foreign forces.

After talks in Baidoa, the diplomats say they hope to go on to Mogadishu for direct talks with the Islamist leaders .

On Tuesday, a two-member United Nations security team met Mogadishu's new rulers in the capital: the UN's first contact with them since they took over from the warlords a month ago.

Most aid workers have pulled out of Mogadishu because it is too dangerous. A Swedish journalist was shot dead at a rally in the city last month.

Somalis, weary after 15 years without an effective national government, are worried about a possible new conflict between Islamist and secular forces in their country.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/5150118.stm

Published: 2006/07/05 15:04:12 GMT

© BBC MMVI
 
rmsharpe said:
You can't negotiate with Islamists, ever.

Quoted for truthfullness. Can anyone show me where negotiations did work?
 
rmsharpe said:
You can't negotiate with Islamists, ever.

Bright day
How about those islamists replace corrupt nepotic sadistic raping feuding feudal mobsters?
 
In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king. Compared to the lack of any civil authority or public services the islamic court is a huge jump foward.
 
skadistic said:
Quoted for truthfullness. Can anyone show me where negotiations did work?

Pakistan and Bangladesh and India(not an Islamic majority, but they have had skirmishes that were resolved by treaty) Have all negotiated treaties at some stage in their history or another. Ask Aneeshm, he'd probably know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh

The population of Bangladesh ranks eighth in the world, but its area of approximately 144,000 km² is ranked ninety-fourth, making it one of the most densely populated countries in the world. It is the third largest Muslim-majority nation, but has a slightly smaller Muslim population than the Muslim minority in India. Geographically dominated by the fertile Ganges-Brahmaputra Delta, the country has annual monsoon floods, and cyclones are frequent. Bangladesh is one of the founding members of South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC), BIMSTEC, and a member of the OIC and the D-8.

You guys need to surf the internet more :)

OP: Ah good news, last I heard Ethiopia had 20,000 troops on the border and had moved 5000 into Somalia. Hard to find news on this, I rely on this forum atm.
 
rmsharpe said:
You can't negotiate with Islamists, ever.

Keep in mind here that the Somali islaamists run the gambit from pragmatic moderates to taliban-inspired fanatics. While there are certainly some very disturbing reports of Sharia law being viciously enforced, from what I have read there are some islaamist factions that just want peace and protection from the 'secular warlords'. Here's hoping that the moderates get heard....
 
The latest from the 'other war':

Islamic Leaders Refuse to Commit to Somalia Peace Talks

July 24, 2006

Islamic leaders have refused to commit to peace talks with the secular interim government of Somalia unless Ethiopian forces pull out of the country. The announcement comes after Somalia’s interim government, following meetings with United Nations officials Tuesday, had agreed to attend negotiations. Many in the international community fear another bloody war is about to erupt in the Horn of Africa.

[...]

Analyst Matt Brydon with the Brussels-based International Crisis Group says even if both sides had agreed to talks, they were not likely to be successful.

“As a starting point the core issues, the political issues that separate the courts and the TFG are significant,” he said. “There is no cease-fire in place, there is no agreement on the deployment of foreign troops of any kind. The presence of the Ethiopian troops is both a complicating factor because it is a red line that the [Islamic] courts have said they will not back down on they have made very clear they are deeply opposed to the Ethiopian presence. But at the same time it is provides reassurance to the TFG that it is not going to be overrun.”
link

Somalia: Plane Brings Arms to Militants

By MOHAMED SHEIKH NOR
The Associated Press
Wednesday, July 26, 2006; 7:22 AM

MOGADISHU, Somalia -- Somalia's virtually powerless government said a cargo plane that landed at the capital's airport Wednesday morning was carrying weapons for Islamic militants who have seized control of much of southern Somalia.

The Ilyushin-76 was only the second aircraft to land at Mogadishu International Airport in more than a decade of anarchy here, demonstrating the Islamic militia's total control of the capital.

A spokesman for the country's official government, based 150 miles northwest of Mogadishu, said the plane was carrying land mines, bombs and long-range guns from Eritrea for a militia loyal to the Supreme Islamic Courts Council, the group that controls Mogadishu.

"I call for the Islamic courts and the Eritrean government to stop igniting a war in Somalia," Salad Ali Jeeley told The Associated Press. He said the Somali government knows what was on the plane through intelligence agents it has in Mogadishu.
link

Looks like everyone is expecting the worse. At this point, I think a agree.... :(
 
Such a shame
 
rmsharpe said:
You can't negotiate with Islamists, ever.

Ok ... so what kind of people did we install in the Iraqi government lately? Also, how would you describe the Saudi government?
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Frightened dictators who can read the writing on the wall.

Too true. I'll be interested to see who's lead the somali islamists will take, should they survive this conflict. Iran? Saudis? Pakistan?

Let's take a look at the Islaamists for a second:

According to wiki, there are 11 factions that make up the Islamic Courts Union. The president of the Union, Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, is considered a moderate who just wants to restore order and get rid of the secular warlords. He beleives that the US is backing the warlords' Alliance for the Restoration of Peace and Counter-Terrorism (ARPCT) and claims that the US is "an enemy of islam"

Of the eleven courts, only two are considered 'radical': one is led by Sheik Hassan Aweys, a former somali soldier and member of Al-Itihaad al-Islamiya, a militia founded with the support of al-quaeda and with Saudi funding. Following 9-11, Aweys was named a 'supporter of terrorism' in an supplement of Executive Order 13224 of United States President George W. Bush. He is also considered by some to be the 'real power' behind the UIC. The other is led by Adan Hashi Ayro, a militant trained in afghanistan who's militia is implicated in the deaths of 5 BBC journalists.

All but one of the courts are dominated by the Hawiye clan, the (arguably) largest clan in somalia, making up 25% of the population. The vast majority of somalis are Sunni.
 
They may accept money from the Saudis, but Id be amazed if they did their bidding. The Saudi government is widely seen in the Islamic world as apostate, and illegitimate. Like I said in another thread, Im solidly behind Islamic Courts. The Somali people have right to live under Sharia Law if thats what they want.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
They may accept money from the Saudis, but Id be amazed if they did their bidding. The Saudi government is widely seen in the Islamic world as apostate, and illegitimate. Like I said in another thread, Im solidly behind Islamic Courts. The Somali people have right to live under Sharia Law if thats what they want.

The strange relationship between the Saudi family and the rest of the muslim world seems complicated at best. To me, the royal family seems like a contradition in terms: wealthy arabs that live a western lifestyles while imposing strict islamic rule on thier people and exporting fundementalist wahabi-inspired islam and keeping 'good relations' with the US.

The problem, IMHO, is that even if they can't dictate to the UIC what to do or how to do it, as holders of the purse-strings they can control where the money flows, and whether it reaches the militias of the moderate courts or the fundementalist ones. Ironically, I think Saudi funding could result in splits in the movement and maybe even lead to the end of the UIC, which would probably put mogadishu right back where it started. That's just my idle speculation, of course...
 
If you want peace in the Mog the ammount of killing that will need to happen to bring it about will be of genocidial proportions. Trust me. That place will be hell for the rest of our lifetimes and the lifetimes of our children.
 
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