Peaceful capitulation?

[suckycivguy]

Never have seen it before was just in a game (prince) khmer was constantly at war with egypt and hre... but not at war with greeks... yet they capitulated to greeks... as did another greek ally the celts... how does this work?

It was kind of like WWII if French and England had become property of US

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Never have seen it before was just in a game (prince) khmer was constantly at war with egypt and hre... but not at war with greeks... yet they capitulated to greeks... as did another greek ally the celts... how does this work?

It was kind of like WWII if French and England had become property of US

The British and French did not become properties of U.S. during or after WWII. Also, the U.S. did not win WWII in Europe - the British and Russians did.

 

[wolfblue]

in a recent game ghandi was surrounded by Cathrine with 2 vassals and Peter and 2 other strong nations. Cathrine was number 1 on the leader board and I was number 2, Ghandi, Peter and 2 other countries were very close for the 3, 4, 5 and 6 slot with ranks changing every turn.

at some point in the game ghandi had landed a settler on a small piece of unsettled land on my continent. bassed on this he randomly asked to be my vassal. i was pretty supprised because ghandi was not exactly week and was not overly negative with any one in particular. later he even 'liberated' his city on my boarder to me. both events i had never experianced in a game before.

on a side note.

The British and French did not become properties of U.S. during or after WWII. Also, the U.S. did not win WWII in Europe - the British and Russians did.

right, the british and french did not become US property after WWII thats just stupid (neither did germany or japan) then again its kind of silly to say the british and russians won in europe... the ALLIES did with primary military effort from Britain, Russia and the US.

 

[Ataxerxes]

in a recent game ghandi was surrounded by Cathrine with 2 vassals and Peter and 2 other strong nations. Cathrine was number 1 on the leader board and I was number 2, Ghandi, Peter and 2 other countries were very close for the 3, 4, 5 and 6 slot with ranks changing every turn.

at some point in the game ghandi had landed a settler on a small piece of unsettled land on my continent. bassed on this he randomly asked to be my vassal. i was pretty supprised because ghandi was not exactly week and was not overly negative with any one in particular. later he even 'liberated' his city on my boarder to me. both events i had never experianced in a game before.

He vassalized to you because he was Gandhi. He's always on the lookout for a protector. Almost as bad (or good) that way as Mansa. He usually isn't overly negative with other players so might vassalize to anyone.

 

[Nobody]

I was playing my first game of civ4, and the portugese just asked me if they could become my vassal. Also i made some of my citys into a colony vassal.

 

[Ruman]

The British and French did not become properties of U.S. during or after WWII. Also, the U.S. did not win WWII in Europe - the British and Russians did.

...I hope you realize that he doesn't really think that happened. He's saying that what happened in his game is as absurd as that would have been if it had happened.

 

[Farm Boy]

...I hope you realize that he doesn't really think that happened. He's saying that what happened in his game is as absurd as that would have been if it had happened.

 

[jgroth1978]

Holy s***! D-Day! 1944! Damn, I was about to agree with that guy, too.

 

[mechaerik]

When its peaceful, its vassalization, not capitulation.

Weak AI civs will occasionally sign themselves into vassalage to strong allies. Vassalization can be broken by the vassal at any time, but not by the master.

 

[awesome]

The British and French did not become properties of U.S. during or after WWII. Also, the U.S. did not win WWII in Europe - the British and Russians did.

without the america's contributions, wwii would have probably been a victory for the axis. america sent tons of funding to britain even before entering the war and had a huge part in winning the war after entering it. that's still not saying that america won the war by itself, either. all of the other members of the allies, including but not limited to the british and russians, also played huge parts in the war.
even still, that has nothing to do with what he said.

as someone else said, it's not capitulation when it's peaceful, it's vassalization. some civilizations will want to become your vassal just as soon as they meet you if you're powerful enough and some will only capitulate if you leave them with one city and no units, if even then.

 

[warrior459]

without the america's contributions, wwii would have probably been a victory for the axis. america sent tons of funding to britain even before entering the war and had a huge part in winning the war after entering it. that's still not saying that america won the war by itself, either. all of the other members of the allies, including but not limited to the british and russians, also played huge parts in the war.
even still, that has nothing to do with what he said.

as someone else said, it's not capitulation when it's peaceful, it's vassalization. some civilizations will want to become your vassal just as soon as they meet you if you're powerful enough and some will only capitulate if you leave them with one city and no units, if even then.

Yeah usually when civs vassilize to me its because theyre at bad standing with another world power and want protection.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

without the america's contributions, wwii would have probably been a victory for the axis. america sent tons of funding to britain even before entering the war

It could also be said that the Axis wouldn't have been anywhere close to as strong without America's contributions of weapons, raw materials, technology, and other supplies to the Axis powers.
America Selling to Both Sides


As for Civ 4 Peaceful Vassalization, each AI has a "VassalRefuseAttitudeThreshold" XML value, which ranges from Annoyed to Pleased. That AI has to have a higher relationship with you than the corresponding XML value before a Peaceful Vassalization will be possible. The same is true of their attitude towards an AI that they might Peacefully Vasslize under.

So, essentially, if the weak AI is Friendly towards you or towards another AI, then Peaceful Vassalization will be possible, and such a Peaceful Vasslization will even be possible with a Pleased or Cautious relationship, depending upon the AI's relevant XML value.


Interestingly, when I look at the "VassalRefuseAttitudeThreshold" XML values for the Warlords expansion, the values range from "Cautious" to "Friendly," which to me implies that certain AIs will NEVER Peacefully Vassalize in Warlords, since their XML values are "Friendly" and you can't get above "Friendly" in the game. Said AIs are:
Alexander
Genghis Khan
Julius Caesar
Napoleon
Shaka


I'm not certain if the Peace Vassalization Attitude is a Team or Individual Attitude, but I imagine that it is a Team Attitude, meaning that the average (rounded down) of the weaker AI's Attitudes towards you and each of your Vassals (and teammates and permanent allies) would also be factored in. Thus, it's probably a lot easier to get a Peace Vassal before you have too many Vassals or when each of you and your Vassals share a common Religion with the weaker AI that you are trying to take on as a Peace Vassal. Of course, if the weaker AI has a low Attitude threshhold, then you can probably still have several Vassals and make it work. For example, in BtS, the following AIs only require a Cautious or better Attitude for them to consider becoming someone's Peace Vassal:
Catherine
Frederick
Gandhi
Louis XIV
Mansa Musa


Then there's a "iVassalPowerModifier" XML value which seems to influence how much of an influence a player's (or perhaps a team's?) Power level will have in terms of an effect on the willingness to become a Peace Vassal.

For example, the following AIs have a -20 value in BtS, which presumably means that you can make them into a Peace Vassal with a lower-than-normal Power rating:
Catherine
De Gaulle
Gandhi
Mansa Musa


It should be no surprise to see Mansa Musa and Gandhi on both of the latter two lists, since those two AIs can often be seen becoming Peace Vassals in BtS games.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I played a recent game when I was about 3 turns away from attacking Mansa and he peace vassals to me. Whatever. I accept and capitulate someone else.

Actually it was a bad choice, since he wanted to go culture. All peace vassals are conniving cowardly bastards with an agenda. I just directed him away from mass media/radio/electricity, demanded some of his resources and stole the precious culture wonders he wanted, and he actually resorted to turning off his research to go pure culture. Too bad it was still too slow for him.

But still, always check the victory screen before anything.

 

[Optical]

Gandhi (Sumeria) peacevassaled to me in an Unrestricted Leaders game a while ago. Soon after, I declared on Saladin (France). Bear in mind, this isn't Random Personalities.

Gandhi sent an invasion force and captured one of Saladin's cities. Knights, siege, everything... Peacevassals are sneaky, aren't they?

DISCLAIMER: This is probably just an isolated case. Never seen it before or since.

EDIT: 400th post...

 

[Nobody]

Can you become a vassal?

 

[Grassland Farm]

I never saw a AI asking for a peace-vassalisation of you. But hell, might happen.

Don't know if the AI would propose you capitulation if they crush you at war.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Can you become a vassal?

No. You could worldbuilder it in.

With Mansa and Gandhi vassalizing so fast it'll happen that they'll peacevassal before you declare on them. With Mansa sometimes he tells me I've researched Feudalism before Nimoy does.

If you peacevassal somebody, especially Mansa, manage their research. Some of these fast vassals have a method to their madness - get protected, gun for culture. You want to keep them away from culture techs and maybe have them research something you can trade for. This is why Shaka-Mansa is such a horrible combo to handle - Shaka (great warmonger) protects little buddy Mansa who guns for culture after feeding Shaka techs.

 

[mechaerik]

Indeed. The human player can't vassalize except through WB.

The developers did this because human vassalization could be exploited, although the code exists and it can be easily enabled.

 

[Optical]

Hey, somebody could do a demonstration game and see what happens if you enable human vassalisation. Anyone want to do that?

 

[Sian]

think neal played as a vassal in a round or two doing his round-robin King of the World game