Peaceful Victory Thrawted by Industrial Age SoD

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Black_Waltz, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. Black_Waltz

    Black_Waltz Chieftain

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    This is starting to make me cry. Earlier I quit the game I was playing when I got swamped by the AI early Industrial Age. Was going for cultural victory, ahead on tech, etc when suddenly a neighbour I've been trying to be friends with for the whole game decided he'd actually really like my land for his own.

    Well, not to be detered I started another game. Played all through the night. I was Egyptians, Thebes became an immense wonder city, pumping out Great Leaders like sweeties, oodles of cash... Then the Ethopians decided to come visit me.

    This is starting to become a trend so I'd quite like to know what I'm doing wrong. I'm quite aware that when the "Most Powerful Civ" leaderboard comes around I'm never on the list - is this the reason why I seem to be such a juicy target? Normally I try to have at least 3 defenders on my borders, one in my middle cities yet it still seems to be no deterrent.

    I normally play Huge maps, Epic timeframe and I tend to enjoy builder a bit more then warmonger (you might never have guessed. :p)
     
  2. Hellspark

    Hellspark Chieftain

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    In short - rich cities with wonders and low on defenders:trouble: . This is what I would call a easy target for my next war. The new AI also tends to take this view.

    Build your Army - look at what the AI's have and plan for the worse. Remember they are all your rivals not just the unfriendy ones.

    Also certain AI leaders love to backstab thier "friends" Qin, Alexander, Cathy - just to name a few. But any of them love to dogpile on low power civ's with rich cities.
     
  3. BARBEERIAN

    BARBEERIAN Prince

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    One way to help cope is to build the Apostolistic Palace and be sure you spread your religion to a few cities from each empire. An AP vote will come up for Ending the war against you. Very handy when you want to go culture/space race and neglect defense a bit.
     
  4. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy

    It is possible to win cultural with only 1 warrior per city. But you MUST monitor your diplomacy. If you have an aggressor nearby you MUST gift them techs early and often and you MUST give in to every demand they send your way. If you do this it is possible to get them to friendly. You may have to passively participate in some early-to-mid-game wars though so it may be important to have strong defenders at the least.

    Later in the game when you start falling behind in tech the diplomatic situation MUST be settled so that you don't have to fear invasion.
     
  5. Black_Waltz

    Black_Waltz Chieftain

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    Ahhh. That makes a bit more sense. I'm quite patchy at the diplomatic situation. I always tend to annoy my neighbours by refusing to end my trading with other civilizations even if the civs they're asking me to stop trading with are Aggressive and a continent away. Looks like I have to read some diplomacy articles in the War Academy.
     
  6. Dan Quale

    Dan Quale Prince

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    I think, AI will attack if you are near legendary in all cities, I saw the khymer empire attack the carpahians who were a mere 25 thousand away from the victory for no apparent reason, Even before my 6 million troops arived via ship(about 70 modern armor, 20 mobile artilery, 10 sams), there main cultural city had been razed,needless to say, when I got there the chances of cultural victory, had turned into a score of 0 in a matter of turns.

    Lets face it cultural victory is for the weak, ghandi only lives to pay tribute to the strong.
     
  7. nwadams

    nwadams Chieftain

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    gifting stuff works unless your neighbor is monty...:mad:
     
  8. Bjorn190

    Bjorn190 Warlord

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    Building a strong army works together with good diplomacy.. havent you read

    "A kind word and a gun works better than just a kind word" ;) Gunpowder tech - I'm sure you've researched it. So get out yer guns foo!
     
  9. silver 2039

    silver 2039 Deity

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    Have a large army. I don't think it even needs to necessarily be modern, but if you have lots of units I think your power rating goes up so that would deter the AI.

    Though personally I like to do what the AI does and launch massive unprovoked wars of aggression against all my neighborers. Its quite fun you should try it.
     
  10. yavoon

    yavoon King

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    this is funny because this is pretty much what I do to the computer. they have bunches of wonders, numerous religions, then comes me, "omg whats that giant stack of rifleman doing!"
     
  11. Thomas G.

    Thomas G. Warlord

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    I can second that AI is better at preventing player from winning. In a recent game I was 5 turns within completing my spaceship, and had mostly neglected army after I got the apollo program up and running. Pleased Shaka then declared war and mounted a quite impressive amphibious assault, and rapidly took 2-3 smaller cities. Since I was in the modern age I managed to halt his attack and build the last spaceship part.

    I think when a player is near victory the AI becomes a lot more likely to attack, because I wasn't really "weak", and in time I probably would have chased him off MY continent.
     
  12. icantdrawanime

    icantdrawanime Chieftain

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    The key to keep the AI off your back is to make them fight other people.

    I was Friendly with Elizabeth in a game I was playing and she was really close to a cultural victory. I was working on a spaceship at the time and she had one legendary city and two others at 25k... And she wouldn't agree to declare war on anyone!

    So I gathered some of my former enemies (I had just gotten Mehemed pleased with me) and asked them to declare war. Things escalated and suddenly the world was at war with everyone but me =D.

    Nothing like a world war to keep your path to a space victory free and clear.

    In the end I got scared Elizabeth would win by culture and attacked her...

    The lesson is, if you want to build peacefully, start wars between the AI to make sure they aren't attacking you. (Also, 3 defenders in each city is really not enough... you should have 1-2 cities constantly producing military)
     
  13. MrFrodo

    MrFrodo Warlord

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    Same here. Liz, ahead as she researched Gunpowder, next thing she knows Napoleon who was "Pleased" attacks her, and my hated enemy Peter of Russia joins into the fracas. It was kind of fun drafting Musketeers like crazy to thwart their Elephants and Knights, but I lost one of the cities that was on course for Legendary culture and was decimated economically and infrastructure wise because I could do nohing to clean up their vandalizing my homeland. I should finish the game, but I'm 3rd now and wanted to try to micromanage better, so I started over.
     
  14. LionQ

    LionQ Noble

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    Don't miss out one the Triangle Diplomacy article. From what you're saying here, I'm getting the idea that you try to be friends with everybody. Even without religious factors, this strategy is impossible to accomplish.

    What you'll probably want to go for is polarizing your diplomatic relations. Make your friends into good friends or allies, and your antagonists into true enemies. Cautious and Pleased are quite useless diplomatic stances; you'll want a couple to be Friendly, and the others to be Annoyed or even Furious. Basically, build a gang and screw the rest.

    It might be a little scary to stack demerit on demerit with a powerful antagonist, but as long as you have friends that you can call in for help, you should be fine. Choosing friends can be quite hard, but try to pay a lot of attention to religious borders in the world. Also, usually you shouldn't try to befriend your neighbours, as you won't be able to get rid of the close borders demerit. (Though that can be balanced out by religious and military merits, of course.)

    On a side note, I see you're struggling with creating a deterrent that sets the AI war declaration considerations' outcome to "Best to leave him alone."; which is obviously done by a strong enough military. To determine what's strong enough, try checking the Demographics screen often, and pay special attention to your amount of soldiers compared to your rivals' best and rivals' average, and don't forget to check out the Power graph for the last 50 turns to see if you're still up to par.
     
  15. Polycrates

    Polycrates Emperor

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    There's your problem right there. If I was an AI and I saw that, I'd declare war on you in a second (nothing personal, you understand... :p ). To even have a hope of deterring a warmonger AI, you need waaaaay more defense than that, especially by the industrial era. At least double, but more would be better. With the new AI, coastal cities count as border cities too, and the AI WILL invade your weak coastal capital by sea.
    Try your best to get a unit to 10xp vs the barbs, build the Heroic Epic in a good production city, and have it building nothing but units. You only lose one city this way, but you get masses of lovely defense. Plus all those units are a marvellous help under Hereditary Rule.

    It helps to know which leaders are trustworthy too (there's a chart floating around somewhere). Some leaders will backstab you as soon as they get a decent opening, so protect your borders with them well.
     
  16. Colee

    Colee Father Of All Bombs

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    Also, in terms of defense: even if you are not planning for war, you should have at least some offensive units like cavalry available besides your city defenders. Because if you do get attacked, it is suboptimal for your troops to sit in their cities and watch the enemy troops pillage the countryside. Having some cavalry may allow you to tackle an attacking stack in the field, before they even reach your cities.

    Besides your own defense, it also helps to have powerful friends. If you have a Defensive Pact with someone, an AI considering whether to attack you or not will base its calculations on the cumulated power rating of you and your allies.
     
  17. Colee

    Colee Father Of All Bombs

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    Oh yes, there's an ancient wisdom here: Si vis pacem, para bellum. If you want peace, prepare for war. Already the Romans knew that, and it couldn't be more relevant for CIV games. :)
     
  18. Colee

    Colee Father Of All Bombs

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    Well that is true of course, but I guess the main reason why you should not befriend your neighbours is that they are prime targets for your expansion. :) Unless of course you are going for a purely peacemonger strategy, but even then an early expansion war can further your goals, I would say.

    As for the para bellum-principle, again, try to think of it this way: it does not make sense to build many beautiful rich juicy cities and then not be able to defend them.
     
  19. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    Diplomacy is the #1 prerequisite.

    Sometimes diplomacy is not enough. On Warlords I've perfected a certain tactic when going for cultural wins on the highest levels. Decoy cities.

    A decoy city is a border city (never on a hill!) that works irrigations for high pop. When the AI invades, its powerful SoDs will capture the city and hang in there until the rebellion is over. Since this takes a lot of time, I build my military and use siege to devastate the static AI SoD.

    No idea how that works out in BtS.
     
  20. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    As for BtS, the Apostolic Palace is a great thing to have when going for cultural. Spread the AP religion, stop wars among the believers and mass DoW the infidels.

    Another amazing wonder: BtS Sistine Chapel. Insane culture.
     

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