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People dislike seafood?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by bakshi, May 12, 2010.

  1. bakshi

    bakshi Prince

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    Why does it seem that people would rather have wheat/corn/rice/pig/cow/sheep then seafood? I would rather have a seafood heavy start then anything else. Sure a little less food but more commerce.
     
  2. CivIVMonger

    CivIVMonger Emperor

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    For some reason I feel a reasonless dislike towards seafood. It may be because of barb galleys or I just seem to like land based empires. I really don't know why but I like grain foods the most, livestock usually means plains, but not always.
     
  3. automator

    automator King

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    I believe for the following reason:

    Once you use a work boat to gain access to your seafood, the boat is used. You need to build a boat for every fish/clam/crab resource. Once a worker has been made, it can be used to give access to any number of resources in the future. If your fishing boat is destroyed, you need to build a new work boat, whereas if a pasture is destroyed, you just have a worker go fix it up again.

    That said, if I'm playing without Barbs, I like having a fishing start civ with a couple crabs on the coast :)
     
  4. stopstopp

    stopstopp Struggling Emperor

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    People dislike fish mainly because having a navy just is -_-. And work boats only work once.

    And you have to research fishing, which most of the time I won't because I will suicide staying in the tech race.
     
  5. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    It's mostly true in the capital. Seafood starts are slower to get started as you need to always rebuild a workboat.

    That and the yield from every other special is generally better. Clams and Crabs are 4-yield which is like non-irrigated rice... :yuck:
     
  6. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    5 with a lighthouse and 2 commerce isn't bad, though, even early game the 2 commerce never hurts when it's only 4 food, better than a farmed FP :p
     
  7. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Yea but then you need a lighthouse... that's the point. It's even more expensive to make them competitive.
     
  8. stopstopp

    stopstopp Struggling Emperor

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    Corporations change the value of seafood, making them a lot better, unless you like SP then seafood sucks again.
     
  9. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

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    Seafood starts are slow starts any way you look at it. You get a little bit of early commerce which compensates somewhat, but give me corn or pigs any day.

    On the other hand, the starts with most total food usually involve seafood. Sometimes two land-based and a couple of seafood. Once you get that lot up and running with a lighthouse, you can pump out settlers and workers quite nicely and use it later as your GP farm.
     
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Seafood is kind of bad in the capitol but good otherwise.

    A lighthouse takes very long to set up compared to say, building a worker and making 1 improvement.

    Fireaxis inexplicably added quad galley spawns in 3.17 (can't they fix something actually broken?!), forcing experienced players to abuse the workarounds and causing great annoyance to less experienced players.

    Seafood starts are a bit slower, but I don't mind them too much actually. They have better commerce than other non-luxury starts, and while a capitol is generally not the preferred location for a GP farm, having a guaranteed one on turn 0 is not bad either.

    Seafood starts >>>>> woofers like plains cow only starts, or non-standard trash like what kossin got with 2x plains hill sheep only on tectonics O.o.
     
  11. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    I just had a 1 rice 2 floodplain start on fractal, I didn't think you could only get one resource if you SIP :( Checked worldbuilder and sure enough, one non irrigated rice as the only resource in the BFC.

    I'd take seafood over that any day :p
     
  12. ahcos

    ahcos King

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    i'd say mainly good otherwise because u can have instantly improved high food yield tiles by sending a workboat to the citytiles before and have some commerce paying for the city aswell. agree?

    whats really bad about seafood start isn't the seafood - it's the fact that you usually have 20-50% of the caps BFC useless watertiles. yeah, they give some commerce (riverside grassland cottage (!) yield) but neither you can't improve them to anything better nor they give you any food surplus. that way your cap can share less tiles with adjacent cities, it won't ever be a really good bureaucracy city (assuming that atleast some of the land tiles are hills you'll have approximatly 8 cottageable tiles ... or less.), you have alot less forrest to chop, alot less possibility for strategic resources in your BFC and so on. well, you can build great lighthouse which is really a powerful WW, but often enough on standart-continents you HAVE to place your first cities landlocked because you need to secure land.
    after all i simply do never work seatiles unless they have a resource on it (cpt obvious is obvious), better stop growth and asign specialists unless you grow fast - but then again, this food surplus can be used for even more specialists x) resourceless seafood tiles are pretty much useless garbage stuff, that's why i dislike seafood starts - and even worse, coastal starts without any seafood at all 8[
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    ^Flood plains count enough to block more food resources, even if it's just ONE flood plain.

    The valuation method for starts is pretty well proven to be crap.
     
  14. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Settler

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    I think seafood's fine, but what I don't like about it is that with a coastal start, you often get 2-3 seafood tiles...and 5+ plain coast tiles (1:food: 2:commerce:), which I very rarely work. They need a lighthouse, Financial, Colossus, and/or Moai to be worth working, and I'd prefer towns, workshops, farms, and mines.
     
  15. CivIVMonger

    CivIVMonger Emperor

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    'Mind explaining to me what yield is? :)

    I heard TMIT describe it in one of his newer LP's but what exactly is it? Something about the total worth of a tile and hammers/food/commerce each have different values. I might be wrong, but I want to know for sure.
     
  16. deathturnip

    deathturnip Deliciously carcenagenic!

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    Yield just means what you get out of the tile. Clam and crab are 4 food, which equals dry rice if you discount the commerce.

    What TMIT was talking about if I am not mistaken is prioritizing tiles during a growth phase by giving them arbitrary point values. I think it was food 10 points hammer 6 points commerce 4 points.

    Namely, he pretends that is what the yields are worth, adds up the points, and works the highest point count tiles while growing. Normally this will result in working food.
     
  17. CIVPhilzilla

    CIVPhilzilla Reagan Republican

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    Seafood is a pain, because even if their bonus is nice, you normally have to deal with significantly more cost/sea squares that are far less productive and can't be really upgraded or used without significant technology and infrastructure. However, once I get Sid's sushi, seafood is worth its weight in gold and I use it with Mining Inc. to start my global conquest that only grows stronger with the more resources I capture.
     
  18. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    Early on seafood is susceptible to barbarians, later on to AI naval superiority. Oh god the naval superiority of a deity Shaka.
     
  19. ahcos

    ahcos King

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    mwhahahah awaiting eagerly your updates :D

    btw, i thought it should be mentioned that i once hat games where working non-lighthouse coastal tiles gives you the crucial "one-turn-faster-at-a-certain-technology", e.g. by letting the city shrink for one turn or so. it's little commerce, but it's commerce nonetheless. yeah, it's rare :)
     
  20. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

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    No point in playing a start like that, especially as you know there's an AI out there with a start like this:



    From a test start I generated last night. I was Tokugawa and had corn, sheep and...uranium. Not utterly terrible, until you see what my closest neighbour has.
     

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