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Perhaps my best Spain start and an actually useful Krakatoa!?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Juanholio, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. Juanholio

    Juanholio Warlord

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    I started on the jungle SE of the whale, didn't like what I saw so moved to the hill NE. Moved my warrior to the bananas to get a better view, thought I could get a coast start with the whales, sugar and bananas all useable and *blam* krakatoa. Should be a monster sci game. I'm not one for fast science victories as I tend to go off on various tangents during the game - so I'd appreciate some tips for a stong science victory.

    I don't like production poor capitals but it seems such a waste to chop those jungle tiles. Any recommendations there?

    NB: Save game is from turn 4, settings are immortal, standard, continents random civs.
     

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  2. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

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    That is just rediculus.

    You could tech straight to guilds and tp the jungle tiles.
    If you can get a pratheon you could chose the culture from jungle bonus.

    Later on you should be able to transport production from other cities, you could rush to workshops to do that.
     
  3. Juanholio

    Juanholio Warlord

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    Oops meant to post this in general discussion forum.

    Yeah, culture from jungles is very tempting as there are other city locations nearby with lots of jungle. I find it hard with spain not to go +4:c5faith: from NWs.

    I don't want to chop too much jungle but I'm going to need some hills for production. not sure what would be optimal. A GE on grassland would be handy.
     
  4. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    I personally don't like jungle. When you have Research Labs in place then each pop will produce 1 beaker so I'd chop them down and grow asap so you can work Krakatoa without growth penalty. You will have an early advantage if you can work Krakatoa early as possible.
     
  5. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

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    Well you could go piety and tech to temples very very fast.

    Rush buy a settler and now you got 2 cities with shrines giving 4 faith per turn and with temples that become 10 faith per turn.

    NC in capital early would be very good.

    Faith partheon will not give you to much in the end, however the culture from jungles could be converted to tourism.
     
  6. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

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    Jungles are plain tiles allways as far as I know so only river side Jungles will give extra food and for that you need civil service.

    However you do get more production from farmed plains then with jungles however jungles will be better for science then plain tiles are.

    2 banans and wheat are food enought In my opinion, and the city could have sea resources too.
     
  7. Juanholio

    Juanholio Warlord

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    Wow DoWed in 45 turns, ouch!

    Spoiler :

    Found barringer crater(!) and forward settled imo not too near, but apparently too near the ottomans, which ticked them off. I stole a worker from a totally unprotected CS but that seems to have been enough. French immediately NE just expanded near by and DoWed, the ottomans a turn later. I made a couple of mistakes and should have gone oligarchy. Lack of production caused a few problems so prob should have teched bronze working sooner. As tempting as it was a closer second city would have been preferable. War with france inevitable though.

    This is where I get stuck on most civ games though an early war sucking the life out of my civ. I watch maddjinns videos and remain stunned how he gets away with one or two archers for so long...
     
  8. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    He's got plenty of science, what he needs is production. Chop the riverside and hill jungle with no banana.
     
  9. ravenmagus

    ravenmagus Warlord

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    Clear the jungle from your capital. Science later does not make up for poor production and poor growth early.

    That Krakatoa is amazing, but it's combined with the otherwise worst start possible: Jungle capital with marsh+calendar and sailing luxuries.
     
  10. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    Madrid on hill 1 tile to west might be better (early hammers). I think Sun god helps during worker jungle chopping.
     
  11. Juanholio

    Juanholio Warlord

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    I agree was a slow burner at first and got beaten up bad by enemy civs - at least severely delayed with a score of units (not kidding) taking up every usable tile. I've just started having another go trying to move in as similar way possible - there's not much advantage there - I might even be worse off than my first attempt, exploration wise.

    It's a start which requires a bit of turtling before expansion I think, but surely must come good. Also I'm still adjusting to the pace of immortal. You can take a fair few liberties on Emp which I can't seem to get away with now. I'd be interested to see how the experienced folks around here handle this game.
     
  12. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Did you settle on turn 3 or 4? I love the look of that start, even with your later bad news, but loosing three turns just sucks too much I think.
     
  13. Juanholio

    Juanholio Warlord

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    city was founded turn 2, only thought of sharing the save beginning turn 4 - I don't have the initial conditions.

    Not really a spoiler saying the french are close NE as they're discovered only a couple of turns after the save. I can't get how to handle their aggression. Early scouting shows a huge build up. Last go they settled four cities surrounding my capital in no time at all. Attacked with swords, catapults and spearmen. The tech advantage should show but it's holding back what ought to be a fairly good start (albeit with the limitations already mentioned).

    It's pretty easy to fight them off but the time it takes is quite irritating.
     
  14. Koiranputki

    Koiranputki Prince

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    I would have been happy with that start... I would have dropped Madrid on that jungle hill on the right, though.

    Then I would have produced a couple of Scouts ASAP to look around for another good wonder, before some CS messes it up, and hopefully not something anemic like Old Faithful or the Grand Mesa.

    I find the AI tend not to bother too much...at least in the early game...with natural wonders.

    Though there's no guarantee to that....
     
  15. Vitruvius

    Vitruvius King

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    Madrid on that hill doesn't actually get extra hammers because you miss out on the plains wheat on first ring. It does mean extra 1 food from banana though. However, the river will pay off in the long run.
     
  16. Espartafilardo

    Espartafilardo Chieftain

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    I took this save to use as my first Immortal game (I am a Prince player).

    I understand the weakness of a jungle start, but I think if I address that issue (not ignore it) I could make do.

    EDIT ... started in, but realized that playing without the Info Addict mod is a drag.
     
  17. grades

    grades Chieftain

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    I've been playing around with this map for a bit. Some spoilers on other map conditions below for those interested:

    Spoiler :

    You have a small mountain chain to the south with only a single passage through. Below that is Byblos, a faith city state (can't remember which one but it's blue), and Sofia. East of that is Suleiman. The Grand Mesa is south-east of Byblos, but it doesn't seem possible to discover it prior to the Ottomans. Immediately north-east of Madrid is Napoleon. There is iron to the northeast near the workable truffles and horses below your two cotton sources. Late game you get an aluminum on the hill tile below your bananas.

    Going east is the Vatican. If you move your warrior right you can discover it first along with the Barringer Crater on the south-east side for a nice bonus of 8 faith and 500 gold. Napoleon is always moving a scout that way however so you have to make the right moves to discover them first. East of the Vatican is Montezuma and Austria.

    There is a second continent with America, the Inca, and Greece.


    And some further spoilers on some seemingly invariable AI interactions:

    Spoiler :

    Napoleon is hellbent on destroying you from the start, no matter what. He is going to settle at least one city nearby to grab an iron that is a tile away from your truffles, and likely positions it to be able to grab the truffle tile as well. He will then continue to settle in or just on the edge of the jungle to your east. He will always declare war early. If you repel his army he will accept peace deals and become 'Friendly' but will DoW you as soon as he has built up his army again.

    Settling a city anywhere in a reasonable vicinity of your capital will really piss off the Ottomans and ensure you get a DoW from them very early. War with them seems to be inevitable even going OCC and doing everything possible to appease him. However, usually by that time France will have effectively blockaded you off and he has difficulty getting many units towards Madrid. Upon signing a peace deal when I tried OCC I was able to immediately get him to DoW on France and a turn later he offers DoF.

    Settling outside of the Suleiman aggro zone will get a large Aztec army marching down on you, and likewise doesn't sit well with Austria. Otherwise, both civs will be friendly - although they always war with each other so pick one to really side up with I guess.

    As far as second/third city spots there isn't much. There is some more cotton to the east. There is a nice spot with wine and deer south-east Byblos, but it's right next to the Ottoman capital and will cause an almost immediate DoW. Further east near the Vatican are some decent spots also but they also illicit immediate DoW from Suleiman.

    The only strat I've found to be really viable is going OCC with this. Use the gold from Krakatoa and Barringer to rush buy a granary and library. Stealng a CS worker and grabbing Bronze working then doing a quick tech to Philosophy nets you a turn 50 NC. Make sure to have a decent military because Napoleon will come for you.
     
  18. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    Is there a condition victory or just win ?
     
  19. ilikepie333

    ilikepie333 Chieftain

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    It's just a fun save to play.
     
  20. ravenmagus

    ravenmagus Warlord

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    Decided to have a run of it to see what happens.

    Spoiler :
    Found France immediately. Lots of ruins in the area, gave me a couple useless things and a couple really important techs (Mining and Calendar). I spent some early gold on a worker to get started on clearing the jungles (also buying tiles for bananas and Krakatoa). Finding Barringer Crater gave me money for a settler; I plopped it down next to the Ottomans and he donated four workers to me. What a nice guy.

    Went for Construction first; Krakatoa made it a quick affair. Still made it to NC at a good clip (turn 75 ish). Third city down near Barringer; I should plant a fourth somewhere in the middle near Vatican, but the real estate isn't all that hot. Maybe I'll take Paris later.

    I finally let the Ottomans have peace and sent him a trade route; he sent me two in return. He's Friendly now, and though I think he's being deceptive I haven't seen too much buildup from him. Scout spotted France advancing with a bunch of pikes and catapults, but I was ready with walls and bows; I lost a bow, France lost all his guys and I took all of his money in a peace treaty.
     

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