Periclis makes no emperor

[CornPlanter]

This was my first try at the Emperor and looks like a fair fail. I was expecting much worse, but anyway... is this game still winnable without miracles?

Settings and situation: [BUG MOD] it's 1080 A.D., I was aiming for culture. Large map, Tectonics: Rand actual Earth, epic speed, Emperor diff, Pericles of Greece, Choose religions on, Perm alliances on (I dont plan to make one though I'd probably could with Pacal, later. But thats not a sort of victory I need).


bad
* I'm only half way to Education now (heading for liberalism obviously)
* I have only 5 cities. Maintenance was insane at the beginning, barely managed to research Alpha and CoL before broke down. Later, Pacal had all the land. At the time he was the only friendly AI to me, I didnt dare to declare on him.
* I suspended liberalism path in order to research Divine Right for the last religion. Normally I never research DR tho this time I thought I need more religions for those Cathedrals. I have so few cities, maybe number of religions will make up for that. Last religion was buddhism.
* Cathedrals? I dont even have music by now.
* Justinian is a powerhose, having whole Africa for himself.
* All my scheming to make Sitting Bull the pariah and the common target was success. Monty, Mehmed, Pacal was busy with him. Until Justinian felt sorry for the poor sioux and vassalized him + declared on the rest (not on Pacal yet, but on me - yes ).
* I'm fairly far from the goal. Not a single city has 10k culture yet.

Good

* All the AIs I know has no paper yet.
* I'm on very good terms with Pacal the Researcher. Trading constantly.
* I'm on fairly good terms with all the rest apart from Justinian and Sitting NonFactor.
* I am still alive!

I'm adding two saves: current situation and initial save. Start was fairly good and certainly winnable, just the lack of skill....

 

[MkLh]

This was my first try at the Emperor and looks like a fair
* I have only 5 cities. Maintenance was insane at the beginning, barely managed to research Alpha and CoL before broke down.

I just noticed you discovered Writing only after your third city, 1300 BC. That's quite late. Usually at Emperor+ you should tech writing before 1500 BC and before your third city (it's the third city that cripples your slider and you need scientists to compensate). Even more so when you are creative with cheap libraries.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Your weakness is expansion. I can usually settle 8-10 cities peacefully, on a standard map, on immortal. Sometimes I'll settle all 10 before code of laws. Early writing is definitely important, and so is working cottages to pay bills (possible using whipchops on libraries can help make it faster for you).

On large you'll probably want 12 cities at least for culture. Try to bulb philosophy to get that religion and hope you get another 2 or so to spread to you. If they do, you have access to 250% culture in each of your 3 cities, and you can still use hermitage and artist bombs on top of that...from there all you'd need is diplomacy.

 

[CornPlanter]

Yeah I did bulb Philosophy, got religion and traded tech around for some nice benefit.

OK thanks for your replies and for your time checking saves. I will try again with emphasis on early expansion and will post here results

 

[Fluxx]

I just noticed you discovered Writing only after your third city, 1300 BC. That's quite late. Usually at Emperor+ you should tech writing before 1500 BC and before your third city (it's the third city that cripples your slider and you need scientists to compensate). Even more so when you are creative with cheap libraries.

No offense but I quote nonsense on this. First of all there you wont be running scientists in your Capital, and your 2nd city wont have library before your third city pops. If you do you are doing something wrong either way.

You can blow your economy up till the 5th-7nd city, before you start worrying about running scientists and drop to 0 science to get alphabet/currency

 

[Crusher1]

MkLh and Fluxx both agree and disagree at the same time it seems. A typical REX will have 5 cities from 1600-1400 BC at which point the Capital should start running 2 scientist ASAP. The problem MkLh has is with his advice about when writing is finished. Writing should be timed to be finished after the 4th settler has been produced giving the player 5 cities (not 3).

Fluxx has the idea with 5 cities before running scientist, but once again, 5 cities usually happens with the time frame provided by MkLh.

Here is a basic example of a REX for Emperor/Immortal:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...78#post8141378

 

[MkLh]

No offense but I quote nonsense on this. First of all there you wont be running scientists in your Capital

What? Capital has two 6-food tiles. It's nearly ideal site for scientists.

, and your 2nd city wont have library before your third city pops. If you do you are doing something wrong either way.

You can blow your economy up till the 5th-7nd city, before you start worrying about running scientists and drop to 0 science to get alphabet/currency

Well if you for some reason want to be extremely backward, then this is way to go. 5-7 cities before you even start to create your first GS is just silly, even if it's only Emperor.

 

[Crusher1]

What? Capital has two 6-food tiles. It's nearly ideal site for scientists.

That doesn't matter ^^. You DO need to start running scientist in your Capital asap. The 25% research bonus works best in the highest science producing city - your Capital. You then either slow build settlers 10-12 turns or workers 7-8 turns until you get your 1st GS.

Well if you for some reason want to be extremely backward, then this is way to go. 5-7 cities before you even start to create your first GS is just silly, even if it's only Emperor.

5 is actually "just about perfect" because that is when you are at 0-10% slider. 6-7 quite frequently ends up having you at Negative gpt.

Mathematics/Currency is superior to Alpha/Currency.

 

[DaveMcW]

Mathematics/Currency is superior to Alpha/Currency.

Only if you are willing and able to abuse whip overflow.

 

[Crusher1]

Only if you are willing and able to abuse whip overflow.

Very true =D , although, it's not "abuse" because the game mechanics allow it. It's nothing different than going to "War" with AIs with a superior tech advantage gained through "trade". Quotes being something AIs fail at. When people stop going to War, playing Marathon, or Trading - then I'll stop whipping and chopping.

 

[Fluxx]

Crusher mate, your link to the guide of chopping/whip overflow aint working. Its probably the dots I wager.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Very true =D , although, it's not "abuse" because the game mechanics allow it. It's nothing different than going to "War" with AIs with a superior tech advantage gained through "trade". Quotes being something AIs fail at. When people stop going to War, playing Marathon, or Trading - then I'll stop whipping and chopping.

Of course, you might just wind up with hannibal or victoria, in which case you have nothing to overflow. Actually combinations involving CHA, FIN, IMP, and PHI are troublesome too - what are you going to overflow? POSSIBLY walls IF you have stone, otherwise you might need to go alphabet.

Still I tend to overexpand rather than under so your timing for writing seems about right.

Edit: SPI isn't a gimme w/ overflow either - unlikely you'll have the religion in the cities you'd want to overflow, AND priesthood...not in this time frame. So although a useful trick, it's not a gimme, unless you avoid some leaders.

 

[Crusher1]

Fluxx - fixed it

@ TMIT

I always pick leaders off-line and only play in forum games that interest me. I do not buy into "random leaders". The best way to become supremely skilled is to play 1 leader at a time - or at least a very select few. There is no point in being the "jack of all trades and master of none".

SPI works great with lot's of war because you get your gold from conquest and then selling techs. Besides, you don't have to use overflow to have a strong game. People like Beth have extremely slow starts when compared to overflow starts but her late game is very powerful. The same can be said with any leader - it just depends.

 

[JBossch]

I always pick leaders off-line and only play in forum games that interest me. I do not buy into "random leaders". The best way to become supremely skilled is to play 1 leader at a time - or at least a very select few. There is no point in being the "jack of all trades and master of none".

Maybe, but I like random leaders. It keeps my mind flexible and prevents me from getting stuck in leader-specific strats, besides being interesting due to the unpredictability. Do you reload if the start doesn't favor your leaders' starting techs?

 

[mboettcher]

Edit: SPI isn't a gimme w/ overflow either - unlikely you'll have the religion in the cities you'd want to overflow, AND priesthood...not in this time frame. So although a useful trick, it's not a gimme, unless you avoid some leaders.

This strategy, like any, is leader/civ dependent. It obviously works fantastic for Pericles being that he is Cre. Its also good as he is not an early war Leader. SOme leaders you may want to only build 1-2 settlers early. Often times If have the right leader on Imm/Emp I'll plop down right near another civ with good land in a spot that really only has ~6 or so useful tiles. YEah its not a great long term cap site buts its great for rushing an early force to take the other civs 3 new cities. A great way to remove a rival and get a good start but this requires a Civ with early war capacity (and this often means that the overflow/whip strat isn't available.) To each leader their own.

 

[Crusher1]

On Immortal I can win with Random leaders at will, However, that doesn't mean that I play best with any random leader. My best play is with specific leaders I have put the most time and effort into.

Do you reload if the start doesn't favor your leaders' starting techs?

I have a wide variety of set build orders for specific Leaders in specific starting positions which encompass a range of different land. I.E. Each start falls into a previously played circumstance (not new because I have been in that situation many times before) and I adjust play and use the most efficient build order/tech/economy to fit my needs, whether that be cottages, specialist, hammers, etc.

Personally, I do not like Random leaders - nor random maps for that matter because they lack game balance (maps). Set maps with identical resources in identical locations for every single leader would be far superior. But, the game isn't perfect so you do what you can with what you got. Too bad because I really enjoy MP in other games I play.

I like to compare my preference about picking over random like this:

Any professional Athlete might cross train and do other things to help prepare himself, however, the vast majority of the time will be spent "perfecting" what it is he does.

So do I play with a variety of leaders? Sure I do - after all, I play quite a few forum games, however, I play much better with the leaders I spend the most time playing with.

It obviously works fantastic for Pericles being that he is Cre.

Pericles is one of the weak CRE leaders with this strat (whip/chop gold overflow).

 

[CornPlanter]

Tonight I had my internet connection lost so having nothing to do I finally decided to try at Emperor once more. And this second shot was damn successfull I have won Cultural victory at 1904.

* I have founded 8 cities peacefully, captured one from barbarians. One more city flipped from Mongols. 10 cities total.
* The whole game I was absolute loser by military power. Always at the bottom. During whole game nobody declared on me. Never. My two closest neighboors were Catherine and Kublai Khan, both powerhoses.
* I did declare several times in order to stay friendly with Catherine.
* I was both the first to circumnavigate (only via map trading and work bots!) and the first to research liberalism. Took Nationalism as a free tech, dunno really why, probably just a habit. Had to research Printing Press and Music on my own afterwards. Then turned off research completely and stayed at 70-100% culture.
* Haven't built or captured a single World Wonder. Founded one religion (after GS bulbed Philosophy).
* Hannibal, from another continent, who was only pleasant towards me, at one point gifted me Military Tradition. Offered himself, I didnt even ask. It haven't had any impact on the game but was still nice
* Mayans and Americans kept spreading Cereal / Sushi into one and the same city of mine. I was really happy about Sushi but just before I finished building corporate agent, Mayans spreaded Cereals instead. Three times!! Only then I realized I could just close borders with mayans, which I did, but never got Sushi again
* Never did any overflow tricks.
* Loaded game twice, both times after stupid hurricane event which destroyed two Cathedrals at GP farm city.
* During most of the game I was at the very bottom by points.

Saves are attached, just in a case somebody wants to check them and give me criticism/suggestions

Thank you all guys who post tutorials and criticisms and whatever else here on forums. Before I started reading strategy forum here, I couldn't even imagine me beating Monarch, leave alone Emperor.

Next time I will try Space Victory.