1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Permanent Alliance Guide

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by WastinTime, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,234
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    I'm no expert yet, but I've done a lot of work recently with a Permanent Alliance (PA).
    My experience is with OCC games winning by Culture or Domination. Both require a PA.
    Don't waste hours playing only to find out "You're too Powerful" or "They're doing fine on their own." Read on.

    Selecting an Alliance Partner

    Pick someone that will not be too close and cause border tension.

    Pick someone with the same religion or convert them.

    Pick more than one civ in case something doesn't work out with your first choice. Be sure Choice #1 likes Choice #2

    Don't trade with Civs that they don't like. Maybe a few techs early in the game.

    If you're trying for Domination as early as possible, Creative Civs seem best to me.
    Getting the Population is not the problem it's getting the land %, so expanding borders seems like the way to go.
    For a culture victory, Creative sounds good again, so familiarize yourself with these civs

    For cultural, pick a civ that's building the early wonders. Industrial trait is nice.

    Gift your GP. I give Great Engineers to my chosen civ and they pop out wonders on the next turn. Of course, you better be sure they're going to join with you later. The following shows how to make sure.


    Getting that Permanent Alliance

    Keep your target Civ happy. Give in to their demands. You probably won't go to war unless you want to.

    I play a peaceful game so I can concentrate on infrastructure and research. Maintaining a war is probably
    the fastest way to get a PA, but I go for a Defensive Pact. Research Military Tradition ASAP and get that
    Pact with one and only one Civ. You must make your choice at this time. A 2nd Pact can drag you into a war
    which cancels your first pact. You'll need this Pact for 40 turns (quick game speed). Example, I got my Pact in 40 AD.
    He finally accepted a PA in 1400 AD. I'm not sure if it's always 40 turns. It could depend on which civ.
    I'm sure you have apply the multiplier for the game speed you're on.

    Research either Communism or Fascism. Communism is easier and you will get there before your Pact brother
    is ready to PA with you. I like this choice for Cultural victory because I like to get my PA partner to build
    Broadway and the Eiffel Tower. For Domination you could go Fascism instead. You don't have to obsolete the Great Library
    and you have more military techs.

    Ok, so you knew most of that already. Here are some tricks I picked up:

    "You're too powerful"
    Look at the graph (F9) and change it to show Power. You must not be the top of that graph.
    That means you can't build a big military. If you did, you can disband units or gift them to your Pact brother (warning: see next tip) or others.

    "We're doing fine on our own"
    Look at the Power graph again. You're Pact brother must also not be on top or you get this problem.
    This means you probably can't gift him your units. If you didn't give him any and he's still on top, then you have to give
    tech and probably military units to another Civ. One that you don't plan to attack probably. Just a couple units makes a
    significant jump up on the Power graph, so it's easy.


    Working within your Alliance

    You can open their city screens (and see the culture level among other stuff).

    Your workers can improve your PA civ's land.
    The worker AI is pathetic -- putting fresh cottages on top of hills, etc. Change them to mines, or windmills.
    Windmills have food so the AI is more likely to work that tile. Change cottages to watermills on the river.
    This worked very well for Culture victory. The PA capitol is probably doing fine, but you need a 3rd city. If you
    can get the production cranked up, it's more likely that city will get the Cathedrals, Broadway, Rock N Roll, etc.
    Sadly, the AI worker will come along and put new cottages down again.

    You can tell your PA what to research and which city to attack.

    You can ask for, and get, any and all resources. However if, for example, you take the only Horses, you're partner cannot build cavalry.

    You cannot culture bomb your PA cities :( However, you can add any GP as a super specialist.
    The Scientist can create an Acadamy.

    I tried to gift a Tank to my PA once and he wouldn't accept it. Not sure what that's all about. He took a dozen Cavalry earlier.
     
  2. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,234
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    ** Reserved **
     
  3. A_Turkish_Guy

    A_Turkish_Guy EminC

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    Denizli\Türkiye
    nice advices.i think it will help the other players wants to play OCC games.:goodjob: .
     
  4. spikeyperson

    spikeyperson Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    47
    can you have more than one permenant alliance?
     
  5. Crayfish

    Crayfish Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    If you want good PA practice, play a map with teams. I started a 4 v. 4 team game and I'm learning lots about how PAs work, cause in teams you are all PAed together from the get-go.

    Note: Team games can not be submitted to HOF, nor (likely) any Gauntlet.
     
  6. BeuwolfAgate

    BeuwolfAgate Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    No you cannot. However, I think defensive pacts are still a possibility, I haven't tried it tho as the game would already be in the bag before that.
     
  7. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,316
    I have heard of reports thast you can (some thread that talked about it, and apparently got 2 or 3)
     
  8. Kalleyao

    Kalleyao Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Europe
    Interesting if you can have multiple alliances.
     
  9. fluffyflyingpig

    fluffyflyingpig Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    116
    You can have DPs when in a PA. I have not been able to get multiple PAs.

    You CANNOT ask the PA partner to change civics when in a PA. >.< Hopefully this will change in a patch.

    The Victory Conditions screen is bugged for PAs and does not list allied cities as it should in the Culture win column.
     
  10. sooooo

    sooooo Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,982
    Have you found that some AI personalities agree more to PAs than others? In one game I had +14 relations with Mao Zedong, with no -ve marks and he refused a PA all game saying "We just don't like you enough". Catherine however was +12 with me and was willing to form a PA.
     
  11. BeuwolfAgate

    BeuwolfAgate Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    Yeah. Same here. Most aggressive civs seem to refuse PA until you have +17>, I guess. Alex did the same this for me and he was running away with domination destroying other civs. But I see aggressive civs seem to like to form PA with another aggressive one. I was playing as saladin and have so far been able to form PAs with Mansa and Hatty (on different games).
     
  12. friskymike

    friskymike Listening to:

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    That would have been version 1.0 of the game, possible 1.09, in 1.52 you can only have one PA.

    I haven't tried PAs myself but I have tried teams, and from the sound of it once you get in a PA it functions the same as being in a team with an AI from the beginning. (ie. can make super specialist in their cities, but not culture bomb, will give you resources, etc.) I wonder if when in a team you could PA with another AI or AI team :crazyeye:
    I don't see why not though!
     
  13. voek

    voek Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    595
    You have to option a PA when starting the game right? Or is it always possible?
     
  14. senwiz

    senwiz Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    304
    Location:
    Appleton, WI
    You do have to toss the option in before yous tart the game.

    I found myself turning off turns and space race, since I am trying to learn other tactics besides that, and turning on PAs. If I use space race as a victory point, I usually end up there, since I use the tech race to get ahead a lot. LOL
     
  15. friskymike

    friskymike Listening to:

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    You need to play a higher difficulty level. Seriously, it forces you (often) to early wars to set up for some other victory type. Sometimes you can win cultural or diplo without any warring on high levels, but space race is often out of the question due to AI tech lead and production advantages.
     
  16. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    4,374
    Location:
    Iowa
    Good guide, WastinTime!:goodjob: Thanks for sharing!:) IMO, this thread should be in the Strategy Articles forum.
     
  17. The Tyrant

    The Tyrant Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    445
    WastinTime, good guide. I learned a couple of things I didn't know, and I've played quite a number of PA games. Just a few days before you posted this, I had answered someone else's question about Permanent Alliances here. We cover most of the same ground, but feel free to incorporate anything from that post that you want to.
     
  18. Kalleyao

    Kalleyao Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Europe
    Does the score your of partner stack with your own?
     
  19. Dida

    Dida YHWH

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,425
    I have achieved a 3 way PA, but that was a long time ago, and I have not played civ4 since.
     
  20. Nares

    Nares Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,631
    Once you've completed this, you may want to consider moving it over to the Strategy Articles sub-section. You may be able to get an admin to move the whole thing, though you could always start a new thread otherwise.
     

Share This Page