Permanent War and War Weariness

[TallJimbo]

I'm in the middle of a fairly epic battle (trying The Black Tower on Immortal), and since the game has been running so long, war weariness has started to creep into my cities. Unfortunately, it seems there's nothing I can do about it except put it off a bit with civics, since the scenario is stuck on permanent war.

And, of course, I assume this happens in any game with permanent war. If it lasts long enough, your cities just die a slow, unpleasant happiness death.

Is there anything I can do with my current game? I'd prefer not to cheat if possible, but I'm not above going world-builder if it lets me play this game out.

Should war weariness be disabled or somehow nerfed when permanent war is on?

 

[Mesix]

I think that it is nerfed, but not eliminated already. I have gone a long time with no war weariness in Permanent War games, and it is usually relatively low. I don't remember how high it got in the Black Tower scenario. I haven't finished it (due to late game crashes and incompatibility of my save game with the current version), but I plan to play it again from the beginning after I finish the other scenarios.

 

[Jet]

The Lanun can get Despotism, Nationalism, Dungeon, Asylum, Pillar of Chains. You can get it low or to zero.

Also I forget if they're teamed in that scenario, but WW is accumulated separately for each enemy, and drops out if you eliminate him.

Some people have argued that leaving WW enabled in Always War was an oversight or bad decision.

 

[Fafnir13]

I don't think it has much place in FFH anyways. The mod is mostly designed around waging epic wars between good and evil. Having to call off wars just so you can keep your empire functioning isn't fun.

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

I don't think it has much place in FFH anyways. The mod is mostly designed around waging epic wars between good and evil. Having to call off wars just so you can keep your empire functioning isn't fun.

It's also about broken, barely functional political entities tottering along. Look at how many mistakes are made in the lore due to ignorance and superstition (think Decius). I think War Weariness in general is a good mechanic, but not for the scenarios, which rarely depict entire empires struggling for survival, but often a small group of soldiers on a specific mission, at which point I don't think WW is appropriate.

 

[Kenjister]

It's also about broken, barely functional political entities tottering along. Look at how many mistakes are made in the lore due to ignorance and superstition (think Decius). I think War Weariness in general is a good mechanic, but not for the scenarios, which rarely depict entire empires struggling for survival, but often a small group of soldiers on a specific mission, at which point I don't think WW is appropriate.

I agree with this.
In the Epic Game, it has it's place. In the scenarios, not so much. I think there's already a No WW option, so turning it on shouldn't be very difficult.

EDIT: Thinking about it more though, WW could sort of represent morale of the troops. If you wipe out the enemy, happiness goes up, but the longer the fight drags on without major victory the unhappier your guys are.

 

[Demus]

exept you gain war weariness for killing others, which should make your morale go up . I noticed this as well in my recent OCC survival game, my war weariness was only at -10, but still. It did help me though, none of the AI's cities have gotten over 10 population, despite numerous happiness and health resources.

in general i agree with the common oppinion on this thread: war weariness should be ingame, but not in scenario's or when always war is on.

 

[Mesix]

Not only should war weariness be eleimnated from scenarios, it should also be changed. When winning a war, war weariness should go down (or even add to happiness). The effects should scale depending on civs. The Bannor, for example, should be able to thrive in a state of perpetual war where their crusaders are taking over enemy cities and destroying the "evils" of the world. If the war is going badly, then there should be a happiness penalty.

 

[zup]

I love to engage in permanent wars. It's funny to see the enemy war weariness over 400, just because they attack my lands and cannot deal with the power of Nox Noctis.

 

[Iceciro]

I do not think you should get war weariness for winning combats - The citizens of the Banor are not exactly going to be upset when your Crusaders destroy a demon horde.

 

[Riffraffselbow]

I do not think you should get war weariness for winning combats - The citizens of the Banor are not exactly going to be upset when your Crusaders destroy a demon horde.

But remember that every "Unit" (except for heroes, and arguably angels/demons/dragons) is actually several thousand people (at least in Civ4. Maybe the devs of FFH have stated otherwise, but I doubt it). If a Unit is injured, that means hundreds of men were killed. Even if a unit isn't injured, there's psychological trauma (one of the big reasons people hate the war in iraq; Our soldiers aren't being killed, but they're getting all sorts of fun disorders which don't effect their combat effectiveness, but do screw them up in the long run).

That said, I don't really know the lore of the bannor specifically; the way you said it, they seem like zealot-style religious/crusade fanatics.

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

Which is why they get a palace bonus to war weariness, and if push comes to shove, can on the crusade civic, knocking War weariness down by 75%.

And I agree with Riffraffselbow, that even victorious combats should increase war weariness. Even if the society is all gung-ho for war, actually projecting force far beyond your borders takes its toll on a civilizations resources. I always thought of war weariness not only encompassing resistance to the continuation of the war, but the stresses of a nation at combat slowly grinding away at its infrastructure, as more and more resources are diverted to the front. (and it's always more expensive to attack than defend)


That being said, there are a few problems. For example, take the Black Tower scenario. Regardless of whether you think war weariness should or should not apply, it is present. Invade the sheiam, and you'll probably use a lot of golems, since living units don't heal. Now maybe there should be a War weariness penalty towards Golems fighting, cuz I mean who cares if they get smashed? But even so the whole projection of resources things applies. What I think is stupid is that if you give your dozens of golems fire 2 from building them in the blasting workshop, those fireballs count towards war weariness, making me very, very wary about bombardment. Personally, I think it ruins a very fine ability, and I almost never use fireballs anymore (Also because Maelstrom ROCKS!)

 

[Kyroshill]

OK.... forgive me if I'm wrong.... it's been a long day and I don't feel like looking it up.....

But I feel sure that I had read once that war weariness came from "troops dying on enemy soil."

If this is so.... then winning battles wouldn't contribute to WW... nor would dying on home soil..... after all... what's the point of getting mad when an invader is burning your farms..... ya get even... or try

 

[civ_king]

You should get happiness for defending on your soil and beating the enemy, If you were invaded and your military was defending your homes and such, when they came back they would be heroes to the civilians

 

[Keeper_GFA]

My only complaint about war weariness in FfH is that the death of summoned units contributed to it (last time I played Sheaim anyways).

 

[zup]

Yeps, it's not like the average serf will be aware that a skeleton was killed or even that it was summoned in the first place.

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

Especially suicide summons, like fireballs. I mean, they're intended to die!

 

[kenken244]

My only complaint about war weariness in FfH is that the death of summoned units contributed to it (last time I played Sheaim anyways).

It does not. however it does contribute war weariness if you kill the unit, just like all combats. I feel that this is not very appropriate for FfH though.

 

[zup]

Really? I have never seen war weariness because I am successful.

 

[K7avenged]

Be the illians and complete the draw. You'll have all the war weariness you can eat, plus some.

Permanent war should = NO war weariness on the simple grounds that you could eventually shut yourself down and not do a thing to solve it.