Persia; Now What? Is this a building phase?

[ShunNakamura]

Now I am definitely out of my league here. Never was good at early war and I fear I over-expanded. Note if it is important that I tend to play noble; though I have thought of moving up.

I am Cyrus and well Catherine of Russia was right beside my capital. Not only was she culture pushing my capital but she was WAY too close for my personal comfort. So I Immortal rushed her. Took Moscow and wiped Russia off the map in 1925 BC. Took much longer than I would have wanted. First she got that random event that gives ALL archers combat 1 for free. Second I lost two Immortals in a row to a lesser city that had a measly unfortified warrior guarding it.

Uh-oh. Zara on my other side was Buddy Buddy with Catherine and now wanted my head. So I take him down in 1000 BC[he had a lot of cities dropped all over the place... and once again a mere warrior caused more harm than I would have thought; cost me 1 Immortal and put another at .3 strength]. However, after that Monty wanted a piece of me. So I nailed him as well.

This screen is the shot of the world just after I took out Monty. War weariness began to spread unhappy faces towards the end of the war with Monty. Sadly now Ragnar and the Chinese are uneasy with me[though thankfully my power graph is high enough neither seem willing to war with me[in reality a war with either of them would finish me]].

So far my plan is to pick up Alphabet and to trade/gift techs to the AIs in such a way as to garner favor. Than my aim is to get currency up and try to pull gold from other AI's[one of them may already have currency so I may not need to research it myself]. After that I am just stuck.

I also posted up my tech tree. All the first techs I have; and I have nothing beyond the point that the screenshots show.


Anyways any good tips on trying to avoid the eminent economic crash I will soon have?

 

[Silence101]

I think you're making a smart move by researching alphabet. It looks like an SE may be the way to go short-term... start running some science specialists to make up for the lack of money while you rebuild your economy - that'll keep you from getting out-teched.

I can't tell from the screen shots if you have CoL or not, but that should probably be your next priority for the courthouses. Get some cottages up and running too, if you haven't done so. Your workers should probably focus on that.

It looks like your Civ is pretty spread out - I'm sure that city matinence is killing your economy at this point. If you have the troops, going to war and razing cities and improvements can be a good way to make money.

Edit: Did you actually finish Monty off, or are you still at war with him? If you're still at war and you've got a high degree of war weariness, you may want to consider taking a break from your crusade against the Aztecs to get your domestic affairs in order.

 

[Tennyson]

Take Phoenician and move your capital there. Get Calendar soon and start working those Calendar resources. Your west looks isolated so move your troops east and start culture-pushing there so you'll have a wide front line against your opponents. 50% on the slider with a lot of cities isn't bad for the tech race if you can get cash flow up in those cities (even before courthouses). Build research there if you have to in order to make up the maintenance fees.

If you are paying for more army than you can upkeep, consider disbanding units that aren't promoted.

 

[phurph]

Wow - you really cleaned house!

Not sure how many workers you have. If you pump out a lot right now, all this land will be productive in no time. You're economy will rock.

 

[Silence101]

Wow - you really cleaned house!

Not sure how many workers you have. If you pump out a lot right now, all this land will be productive in no time. You're economy will rock.

Yeah, you're actually in a pretty decent position. This is a good time to run an SE I think. Get some science specialists going in a few cities. Don't get overly concerned about your economy - yeah, you don't want to run into the hole too much, but I don't think it's a cause for concern right now. Focus on getting research from specialists for the time being. After a little time, you'll be a real powerhouse Civ - should be able to clean up the rest of that continent without too much trouble.

Edit: Still work on getting courthouses and researching currency - you don't want to run an SE forever.

 

[ShunNakamura]

I think you're making a smart move by researching alphabet. It looks like an SE may be the way to go short-term... start running some science specialists to make up for the lack of money while you rebuild your economy - that'll keep you from getting out-teched.

Completely forgot about specialists[sad considering I tend to run a SE/Builder game... completely losing my head in this early war buisness].

I can't tell from the screen shots if you have CoL or not, but that should probably be your next priority for the courthouses. Get some cottages up and running too, if you haven't done so. Your workers should probably focus on that.

No CoL yet.
I got a few cottages but not many since I focused so much on Immortal pumping that I only got 5? all but the initial one I made captured. I was actually thinking of picking up calender somewhere along here in order to get those plantations up. Wouldn't they give more initial commerce than non-flood plain cottages? Ah well, I do have free workers up until I get calender.

It looks like your Civ is pretty spread out - I'm sure that city matinence is killing your economy at this point. If you have the troops, going to war and razing cities and improvements can be a good way to make money.

After obliterating the Aztecs all I have left are 7 Swords and 10'ish Immortals. As a note I love those guys... not only do they have an archer bonus but they also receive defensive bonuses.

Anyways I am stopping the war because the AI's are at the stage where my immortal army isn't very strong anymore. It was a real pain taking the Aztecs. I must have lost 15 ish Immortals on them alone. Compare that to the 4 that Catherine Killed and the 2 that Zara killed and that is a BIG difference.

Take Phoenician and move your capital there. Get Calendar soon and start working those Calendar resources. Your west looks isolated so move your troops east and start culture-pushing there so you'll have a wide front line against your opponents. 50% on the slider with a lot of cities isn't bad for the tech race if you can get cash flow up in those cities (even before courthouses). Build research there if you have to in order to make up the maintenance fees.

I realize that this doesn't show on the screenshots but I do have a Settler pending in my capital needing only 1 turn completion. Wouldn't the better idea be to take out Phoenician and than settle on the north spice so that I get access to copper-Spice-cow in there? Or perhaps one east so I get the Banana-spice-cow?

If you are paying for more army than you can upkeep, consider disbanding units that aren't promoted.

Even if I was paying too much army upkeep[it actually isn't all that bad last I checked... mostly it is the spread out nature of my cities] I don't really have any unpromoted troops left. I tend to suicide them off first. All my units left[cept a couple swords that I have on my west side to ward off the AIs] are all at least at 3 promotions[helps that I pop out triple promoted cavalry from my capital every turn].


Anyways I'll likely aim for CoL now while I pump workers and then I'll grab calender[if I can't trade for it from an AI that is].



Oh yes, one last question that pertains on path to follow after I steady my economy. As you can see in the second Screen Shot I have caught myself the holy city of Judaism. Should I spread it while working to generate a great prophet so I can rake in some cash, or should I just ignore it and let Elizabeth push me into Buddhism?

Err... Let me explain the religion side. The Chinese founded Hinduism and are the only Hindu on the continent. The English founded Buddhism and have converted the vikings[and seem to be working on me seeing how many of my cities they have spread buddhism to].

 

[Tennyson]

I realize that this doesn't show on the screenshots but I do have a Settler pending in my capital needing only 1 turn completion. Wouldn't the better idea be to take out Phoenician and than settle on the north spice so that I get access to copper-Spice-cow in there? Or perhaps one east so I get the Banana-spice-cow?

I would settle 1 W of the current location if you have to, then settle between the marble and dye later and pick up the cow at that point. But if I'm reading this right you have two food tiles and two calendar tiles in Phoenicia, and that means both money and two library scientists pretty soon. At the cost of not working that copper. At 50% and -16pt your concern now should be money.

If you do settle 1W then get a coastal village to use that bananna. On a setup like you have I would be settling on the coast a lot. There's a good spot for Maoi southwest of your capital, but I'd leave that for later.

 

[Silence101]

I can see that two of your cities have Judaism, but beyond that, does anyone else have any cities with it? It seems to me that there are better uses for your production at this point than building missionaries - although if you can manage to convert a neighbor, it may be a diplomatic advantage. I wonder if it's a bit of a gambit, though.

I'm not sure how you're doing militarily overall - I know you just got out of a war and so you may need to rebuild military, and it's likely there's also more effective infrastructure you could build in your cities. I honestly think that building missionaries should be a lower priority at this point. Your economy isn't fantastic, but for an SE, it's fine for now.

 

[ShunNakamura]

I would settle 1 W of the current location if you have to, then settle between the marble and dye later and pick up the cow at that point. But if I'm reading this right you have two food tiles and two calendar tiles in Phoenicia, and that means both money and two library scientists pretty soon. At the cost of not working that copper. At 50% and -16pt your concern now should be money.

My bad, know that I zoom in to look the cow is available at the current city. So it has 1 banana, 2 spices, and 1 cow.

Still I have to wonder. On the topmost spice not only would I have more production, but I would also save the banana for the cost city combined with the rice. Useful since it doesn't look like that stretch of coast has any seafood.

More screen shots of the area.

As for the Religion deal, I was mainly talking about after I got my economy up and stable.


Before I go any farther I really am going to see if I can dot map this landmass. So it may be a bit before I get back into playing.


And my last question is; is the fact that I steamrolled 3 civs a sign that I should be moving up? I would guess yes, but none of them seemed all that powerful. Weak militarily[even monty] and absolutely no wonders. Thus, I am wondering if the AI just hit one of the slumps that seems to happen from time to time with AI's I have played with in other games.


Edit- I have the dot maps done. Truthfully I am not 100% sure what to do city placement wise if I just keep the city where it is. I figured I could just drop the iron/stone/floodplain city in the same place as it is if I settled on the spice. Also I forgot to plan the southwestern cities... afterall I will want to expand east first to block off AI expansion.

 

[phurph]

And my last question is; is the fact that I steamrolled 3 civs a sign that I should be moving up?

It never hurts to go up a level (though it does sting the ego a bit when the barbs destroy your empire in 1500 BC ).

Immortals steamroll really well at most levels . The main problem at higher levels would be overexpanding and tanking your economy, because of the higher maintenance penalties. This can be especially problematic if you expand lots before any of the economy techs are available. This usually happens with a civ with an early UU like the Immortal.

Then when you try to learn them, it takes FOREVER. I'm not even talking about Curr/CoL (which are essential too). Even pottery/ writing can take forever to research if you have huge maintenance costs and little commerce available (and haven't researched them yet). Not only that but after you research them, you still have to build Libs or Cottages, before you even see the commerce/research improvements. All this said, if you can survive through that period then having a large empire helps you catch up quickly.

I'll stop rambling, but In any case it's fun to try to find different ways to get through these maintenance killing situations. I would recomment playing Persia on Monarch (yes!) on a map with no gold/gems but with great production/food. Settle 1 more cities for horses and build up a big army of Immortals and you'll find it easy to steamroll early AIs. Get a empire about the size of your current one and try and find ways to pay for both maintenance AND research. Then try a less agresive expansion and compare. It's an awesome learning experience.

 

[xanadux]

You could settle the gold/gem area, and the rice/copper, sealing off your part of the continent. Working the gold and gems should close to compensate for these 2 cities upkeep. If you could pull this off, keep economy afloat til calendar/CoL/currency, you stake a claim for a huge amount of land, and will eventually dominate this continent as long as you don't get involved in a war you aren't prepared for. I think before you commit to something like this though, you need to finish alphabet and see what you can get in trade. If you can't get the techs to help your economy, expanding more right now is unwise because it will take you too long to research them yourself, and then must build. What is the map size/speed? Do you know how many cities your opponents have? Even if you stop and build for a while, you should be able to get a few more cities through peaceful expansion, and have a dominating economy to support a later war (macemen/cats)

 

[ShunNakamura]

Well the Chinese beat me to the gold. But it wasn't that bad since I already was getting gold from Elizabeth.

Anyways I just kept the proposed capital change where it was so that I could use that pending settler to block off Chinese expansion in my direction.

I got Courthouses in nearly all my cities[the new capital and my old capital are the only ones I think missing them].

I still have the military edge on the Chinese but the Vikings have surpassed me... for now anyways. Surprisingly Ragnar declared war on his longtime friend and religious colleague Elizabeth. I am wondering if I should talk him out of it.


As for war I figured I would wait until I got Knights so that I could upgrade all my highly promoted Immortals for the assault. Of course that may be too long of a wait I guess. Either way Chinese will be my next target unless the state of the world changes greatly. They have nearly all the wonders except the two I managed to get out during my recovery phase[Hanging Gardens[+1 pop in all cities = a lot more commerce tiles worked particularly since I held off building it until I had the settlers settled where I wanted them; and I got the great lighthouse up... odd that no one else had built it. I figured the extra traderoutes would be quite useful].

Going for civil service to get maces online as fast as possible. That and Irrigation will enable some neato chains to get some of my more food poor cities up and going.

The speed is epic and map size is standard. I don't play much larger because my computer lags in the late game as is even on standard.


@phurph
Personally I was surprised how well they steamrolled. I took them much easier than I had with war chariots as the Egyptians[though I did have sitting bull as a neighbor then]. The fact that they receive defensive bonuses is real nice . A real good all purpose unit. Sort of like the Greek phalanx.