Persia was Murdered

[CivRulesAll]

After playing CivIII for a while, i decided to go retry civ 4. When i picked Persia, I noticed that their UU was completely destroyed. In civ3 it was a monster but in civ 4 i is nothing more than a nuisance to the civs you are at war with. And since it is mounted, an Immortal versus a spearman is no match. Persia was basically murdered.

 

[Tibur753]

The Civ3 entry for Immortal is below. Next is the Civ4 entry.

The Immortals were a strong corps of heavy infantry deployed by the Persian Empire in the fifth century BC. Gifted soldiers, they drew their moniker from the fact that regardless of the casualties sustained in battle, the unit was restored to full strength, no matter the cost. Equipped with bow and spear, the front rank would advance upon the enemy while rear ranks rained arrows to ease the assault.

The Immortals were a strong corps deployed by the Persian Empire in the fifth century BC. Gifted soldiers, they drew their moniker from the fact that regardless of the casualties sustained in battle, the unit was restored to full strength, no matter the cost. Equipped with bow and spear, the front rank would advance upon the enemy while rear ranks rained arrows to ease the assault.

As you can see the only difference is that the new one doesn't say heavy infantry. This tells us two things. First, they are too lazy to come up with a new entry. Second, either they made up the heavy infantry part, they made up the mounted part, they actually consisted of both, or no one knows which one it is in which case they would have still made up both.

If the first is true, then it was for historical accuracy.
If any of the others was true, it was probably for game balance.

Either way, I agree that the Persian UU was murdered. But the +50% vs. archers would help with a chariot rush. My only question is why it requires the wheel? Probably should be Animal Husbandry. That would help even more with early rush.

 

[nbcman]

The Immortal has the bonus to attacking two of the most likely defenders of the era-archers and axemen. Also the Immortal does receive terrain defense bonuses unlike other chariot units which means an Immortal on a wooded hill has a good chance to win a battle against a spearman especially if the Immortal has a shock promotion. You just have to make sure you pillage your opponents metals to prevent any more spearmen and bring an axeman along as a stack defender against spearmen. Try a game with Darius as the leader of the Persians and you will see how quick Immortals can take out the competition.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

Immortals in the hands of a human player are up there as one of the best UUs. The key is to hook up horses ASAP, pump out Immortals and take out your nearest neighbour or two. They're good to use as long as the opponent doesn't have too many Spearmen.

 

[r_rolo1]

Historical note:

Immortals were both mounted and foot soldiers ,but in diferent times: Immortals in Xerxes and Darius time were foot soldiers ( the description of civilopedia describes them ) , but in the Sassandid period they were mounted troops.

On civ:

nbcman says it all... they eat axes and archers at breakfast and can deal with the only possible counter if you move smart and pillage the metals. It is by far one of the strongest UU of Civ IV ( many people puts them in second, right before the ridiculously overpowered preatorian )

 

[MrCynical]

Immortals are still one of the stronger UUs in the hands of a human player. Yes they'll get beaten by spears, but they're excellent against civs without metal or that simply haven't built any. Not quite as good as a Praetorian, but they're still a strong UU. You can hardly complain just because it isn't (quite) as overpowered any more.

 

[Winth]

They are available much earlier as if they were swordsman (you need Animal Husbandry and a source of horses only, and The Wheel of course). The immortals are also much faster. Later, when they lose their power, they can make a good Medic unit. Just go after them immediately, whip several of them and destroy the AI. There are only few Civs that go straight for strategic resources (Rome, for example).
It's true that the unit is now more balanced, but hey. It's all a matter if you will catch 'em with their pants down or not. Same for War Chariots.

 

[Napalm102]

After playing CivIII for a while, i decided to go retry civ 4. When i picked Persia, I noticed that their UU was completely destroyed. In civ3 it was a monster but in civ 4 i is nothing more than a nuisance to the civs you are at war with. And since it is mounted, an Immortal versus a spearman is no match. Persia was basically murdered.

You call it murder and I call it balance. Now if only devs decided to murder Romans a bit

 

[Tibur753]

Immortals were both mounted and foot soldiers ,but in diferent times: Immortals in Xerxes and Darius time were foot soldiers ( the description of civilopedia describes them ) , but in the Sassandid period they were mounted troops.

OK, so it is the third option. Thank you for the information.

 

[ICNP]

So what would we call a UU that gets buffed? Raised from the Dead?

Then I guess the Panzer needs to get raised from the dead!

 

[reverend oats]

The immortal is one of the best UUs out there with the Quencha, War Chariot, and Preat. Really, it's cheap, early, easily whip-able, fast, and has a bonus against the AI's defensive staple.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

No idea what they were like in C3, but wow. The OP couldn't possibly be more wrong. The immortal is easily one of the top UUs in the entire game. I'd put them at #3 after the quechua and praetorian. And like both of those units they allow you to take over entire continents from the BCs when you know what you're doing and a little luck.

 

[Lexicus]

Panzer should have extra movement point like in CivIII.

I've never actually used Immortals, but Praetorians are murder. I've used them to clear my continent before gunpowder.

 

[QuixotesGhost]

Immortals are my favorite UU; I like them even better than praets.

Mainly because the Immortals tech path is painless. They come at a better time for rushing. They're faster and they're cheaper. Praets and Immortals are both so good that if you use them well and get them built early enough you stand very good chances of winning your first war. I'd prefer the choice that came earlier and cheaper. Why worry about iron working when I need to be teching towards Code of Laws and Currency to maintain my soon to be larger empire? Also, I'm not sure about you guys but there has been times on Emperor when I've been playing as Rome, assembled my Invincible Force of Praet Ownage only to find out that my neighbor has snagged feudalism (which the AI loves to beeline) just before I declared. That generally means an expensive detour to construction for cats, keeping in mind you really want that Code of Laws sooner rather than later. If I'm going to war before siege engines I generally want a force ready to go around 1750 B.C. to 1250 B.C. - 1000 B.C. at the latest. I find this much easier to do with Immortals than Praets. Plus the faster speed of Immortals gives your enemy less time to whip. You really want to reach cities as fast as possible in the ancient era just to give your opponent less opportunities to whip.

 

[r_rolo1]

After playing CivIII for a while, i decided to go retry civ 4. When i picked Persia, I noticed that their UU was completely destroyed. In civ3 it was a monster but in civ 4 i is nothing more than a nuisance to the civs you are at war with. And since it is mounted, an Immortal versus a spearman is no match. Persia was basically murdered.

I took some time to find this....

"Cyrus... Hmm, been a while. Let's see if these Immortals are half as good as they're said to be on Civ Fanatics."

Spoiler :

"Errrr... Hello ? Anybody out there ?"

And there you're really, really happy the AI can't rush...

QED

 

[Iranon]

Now, Immortals get a sizable bonus against the most common city defenders and come at a very sweet time for a rush: early enough to catch the AI with their pants down, late enough to know whether it's worth your time or not.

A Quechua rush is the most effective in the game, but you need to devote to that very early in the game before you know whether that's actually a good idea.
An early war with Praetorians or Cho-Ko-Nu after a bit of Oracle Cheese has more staying power, but on the higher difficulties the opponents are usually too entrenched to call this a proper rush.

They are one of the top 5 UUs IMO, along with the others I mentioned and War Chariots.