Doesn't mean I have to like it
Persia
- Thread starter Funak
- Start date
The idea of the strategy is that it is going to pay off in the classical/medieval era. Yes your turn 63 will be better with pure authority, I'm not going to argue otherwise
tu_79
Deity
I took Persia once just because my son is named after Persia's King, not liking all that war stuff. But one extra movement on every unit was amazing. Having this bonus non stop late game was a nice surprise too. I was a bit disappointed with Immortals, since they were better for defense than the attack (they proved me wrong when I faced Persian AI, though).
Yea they're not Hoplites, otoh when you heal in neutral territory quicker than the defender in their own borders you can take down the AI armies no matter what, especially when the counter attack hurts the enemy more than you. 12 CS vs spearmen 10 CS is nothing to sneeze at either.
I am not sure about the promotion path, but this is what I like to do (theorycrafting): the first bunch of them (up to force limit) follow the Shock path in order to unlock march, and put a medic or two in the mix as well. That usually makes easier barb hunting and early AI skirmish, at the cost of slowing down city assaults, but no way the enemy can stop massed immortals anyway, just takes some turns more for capitals. After some infrastructure, the future immortals follow the Drill path, and with the GA movement bonus they can put Blitz to good use.
I am not sure about the promotion path, but this is what I like to do (theorycrafting): the first bunch of them (up to force limit) follow the Shock path in order to unlock march, and put a medic or two in the mix as well. That usually makes easier barb hunting and early AI skirmish, at the cost of slowing down city assaults, but no way the enemy can stop massed immortals anyway, just takes some turns more for capitals. After some infrastructure, the future immortals follow the Drill path, and with the GA movement bonus they can put Blitz to good use.
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ElliotS
Warmonger
FWIW I think going for the +10 HP healed in friendly territory is the best for early war. Everything heals so fast, and immortals become even more terrifying.
Ok guys, clearly Persia needs something. The survey that went around a month or two ago found Persia to be the least mentioned Civ. People didnt think they were too strong, too weak, really fun, or really boring. IT WAS LIKE THEY DIDNT EXIST AT ALL.
Persia is one of 3 Civs in the entire game that doesn't get a bonus to production, culture, or science. I suggest giving them a boost to one of these during golden ages.
Persia is one of 3 Civs in the entire game that doesn't get a bonus to production, culture, or science. I suggest giving them a boost to one of these during golden ages.
Why would they be any good. 10% 
converts into 
. That's like 10 or so per turn in industrial. Oh, so by one spreading faith with Apostolic tradition you get pretty much as many as Persia with 30 turns of UA. Nice.
And GA - first of all - you can't really make proper timing with them. Yes, you can micro to get rough estimate when you will hit GA early on, but it's not that you can plan it. Secondly - early GA are really short - even with +50% length from UA, you (unless you have some monopoly bonuses) get 6 turns GA. That's not very impactful. Thirdly - +1 movement and +15%
is MASSIVE. Especially for siege units. Except again - you can't time it. And by the time you reach permaGA - you probably already won the game.
What I would add - conquering a city during you GA extends it's length by population/4 turns.
converts into . That's like 10 or so per turn in industrial. Oh, so by one spreading faith with Apostolic tradition you get pretty much as many as Persia with 30 turns of UA. Nice.And GA - first of all - you can't really make proper timing with them. Yes, you can micro to get rough estimate when you will hit GA early on, but it's not that you can plan it. Secondly - early GA are really short - even with +50% length from UA, you (unless you have some monopoly bonuses) get 6 turns GA. That's not very impactful. Thirdly - +1 movement and +15%
is MASSIVE. Especially for siege units. Except again - you can't time it. And by the time you reach permaGA - you probably already won the game.What I would add - conquering a city during you GA extends it's length by population/4 turns.
Hey, that's my design you're bashing
Honestly, though, the Satrap court is not very memorable, but having it as a courthouse makes sense to me.
Think that might be Persia's problem in general, they're not very memorable.
Infidel, are you sure the +15% is not just additive, like most other bonuses? A 15% bonus for siege units, that already receive like 200% bonuses shouldn't be very relevant.
It is, I mostly meant +1 movement for siege is great, as they can move and shoot in the same turn.
Oh, yeah, but Sweden does that 24/7.
I actually quite like Persia. Immortals pretty much carry your early game. the problem is at late classical/medieval era he really drops off (especially if you spend hammers on the UB). The tourism into golden age points thing is irrelevant and could be swapped for something else (or even just removed)
Courthouse replacement is a great idea, that part should stay. Its effect is just too weak IMO. I'd make the building grant +% to something during golden ages, so it rewards my golden ages, rather than help me establish more. With a 50% bonus from the UA its not hard to keep golden ages for most of the time.Hey, that's my design you're bashing
Honestly, though, the Satrap court is not very memorable, but having it as a courthouse makes sense to me.
Think that might be Persia's problem in general, they're not very memorable.
You can time it with great artists or the grand temple. Even the AI does a good job of timing golden ages, the Persian UA is very strong, one of the best warmonger UAs in my opinion.
Sounds like Persia needs a full rework. If the UB is not even worth building that is a complete failure. My take:
UA- +50% length of golden ages and golden age triggers WLTKD in all cities for the duration of the golden age.
UB- Heroic Epic replacement
GAP/pop, +gold/pop,+2 writing slots (+production when themed)
-25% Golden Age cost.
Culture/Science bonus in all cities during
WLTKD, and +1 movement and +25% CS for all units while capital has WLTKD.
UU- imortal is fine.
This new UA/UB combo would fix the problem of golden age points from tourism being minimal, allows Persia more control of when they get the combat bonus, and gives them the production/culture/science they currently lack.
It also better synergizes with wonders/policies/beliefs/UB which give golden age points by making golden ages cheaper.
Persia can choose to go artistry for more and better golden ages or fealty for better wide infrastructure and WLTKD bonus.
Opponents can try to deny Persia the combat bonus by refusing to trade, and you can tell when they have the combat bonus if you have a spy in their capital.
P.S. Combat bonus is 25% because units cannot gain morale promotion.
UA- +50% length of golden ages and golden age triggers WLTKD in all cities for the duration of the golden age.
UB- Heroic Epic replacement
GAP/pop, +gold/pop,+2 writing slots (+production when themed)
-25% Golden Age cost.
Culture/Science bonus in all cities during
WLTKD, and +1 movement and +25% CS for all units while capital has WLTKD.
UU- imortal is fine.
This new UA/UB combo would fix the problem of golden age points from tourism being minimal, allows Persia more control of when they get the combat bonus, and gives them the production/culture/science they currently lack.
It also better synergizes with wonders/policies/beliefs/UB which give golden age points by making golden ages cheaper.
Persia can choose to go artistry for more and better golden ages or fealty for better wide infrastructure and WLTKD bonus.
Opponents can try to deny Persia the combat bonus by refusing to trade, and you can tell when they have the combat bonus if you have a spy in their capital.
P.S. Combat bonus is 25% because units cannot gain morale promotion.
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No, it does not sound like Persia needs a full rework. Just a few smaller tweaks. No more full reworks.
G
Satrap's Court adds +% of a certain yield while in a Golden Age?
thecraftybee
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2015
- Messages
- 235
Persia was maybe my favourite civ in vanilla. I really like it in VP too, it's just that everyone else has been turned up to 11 when compared to vanilla.
I don't think Persia needs much if anything. Maybe the UB could be boosted, or an additional yield is added to the GA bonus alongside Culture and Production. But I'd prefer not too much be changed.
I don't think Persia needs much if anything. Maybe the UB could be boosted, or an additional yield is added to the GA bonus alongside Culture and Production. But I'd prefer not too much be changed.
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