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Persian UHV 1.18 Help Request [Latest Develop]

Sovietof17

Prince
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
304
I really need any and all help anyone can provide for the Persian UHV, specifically the 2nd milestone. Please note I only play on regent as I find all of these uhvs hard enough. Note that vassalization does nothing for you at all in any of these UHVs, so never vassalize unless you want to lose.

Please note UHV #1 requires cultural control of every tile of your road if you try this UHV.

Zeroth, Ill talk about my civics and justify them
Monarchy, Slavery, Deification, Merchant Trade, Hegemony

Monarchy: There's really no other viable option here, I believe.
Slavery: Pick up an army of workers as you conquer. In my opinion, far more awesome than manorialism.
Deification: Debatable I think, but you need 10 wonders, unsure if clergy applies to wonder building or not. Cheaper economically
Merchant trade: I switch when I have hegemony and this. Doubles your trade routes. Awesome.
Hegemony: More money for conquering cities? Sure

First, I'll talk about my tech order and explain it
Mathematics, Cement, Engineering, Contract, Generalship, Currency, Aesthetics, Architecture ....

Mathematics: Bridges so my armies can move faster
Cement: Build the qanat, mausoleum wonder.
Engineering: +1 road movement, in my opinion, an absolute must for conquering the world.
Contract: Prereq for Generalship
Generalship: Gives access to Saravans, War Elephants. Hegemony
Currency: Silk Road
Aesthetics: Pre req to Architecture
Architecture: UHV 3

Second, I'll talk about my game plan and why I do it:
0. Spread Zorastriasm throught my Empire
0. Build all the wonders in Parsa [apadana, mauso, gondashepur but I ran out of time]
1. Conquer Babylon
2. Conquer Assyria
3. Conquer Hittites
4. Complete the road to Anatolia
5. Conquer the Greeks
6. Conquer the Phoenicians
7. Conquer the Egyptians
...

Rationales
Spreading Zoroanistriasm is necessary as you're going to need 8 cities with 8 temples to make 4 cathedrals. Also aligns with the goal to have 8 cities with a 1000 culture.
Wonders in Parsa: It's far away, has decent production, and seems to be the only city in your empire benefitting from the Qanat, which makes it the best choice I think
Conquer Babylon: It melts instantly to your massive army of Immortlas which hard counter its few archer defenders. A huge economic center and population center for UHV2.
Conquer Assyria: They also fall over to your large army and they are in the way of your road.
Conquer Hittites: Pretty much the same as Assyria. One time I was unlucky and they had like 8(!) archers
Conquer Greece: You need to do this as soon as possible. If you don't Greece will lauch an invasion into your heartland, which in my opinion, is simply game over, as their units are all diamond hard counters to yours. You need CATAPULTS to touch Athens, at least 2, because the Hoplites will easily shred your Immortals without them. You need SWORDSMEN as the primary city attacker here. When I had conquered Greece the last attempt, I was lucky as they built Byzantium and the Colossus for me. Nice.
Conquer Egypt: Immortals will work great here. Note that Egypt's population (the 2 main cities, not the coastal city) should put you over 35% easily. They will have WAR CHARIOTS so watch out for these. And watch out as conquering egypt cuts you off for a long time from egypt as the culture needs to cover uncrossable tiles. Your army is stuck there.

Where I'm failing:
I'm not able to achieve the 10 wonders. My best is 7. So let's review my last game and what existed in the world. In the whole world, there were 9 wonders. I had 2 under construction.

Thoughts: Saravans could be a game loss trap? Tech to something else to get a wonder for UHV 2? Is there really time to build it?

My built wonders:
* Great mausoleum
* Apadana Palace

My under construction wonders:
* Gondashepur: 4 turns left, at 300bc, probablly doable for sure if I played better.
* Al Khazneh: 64 turns left, at 300 bc, impossible I would say. Requires Judaism and an oasis. Good luck, lol

My conquered wonders:
Oracle: athens
Colossus: Byz
Sphinx+Pyramids: inebu-hedj
Ishtar Gate- Taouion

Other wonders in the world:
Hanging Gardens: Always built in Nubia every game I play. Conquerable, maybe, but Greece has to fall first.
Terracota Army: LOL

So that is the game state. Even if I played the best and finished Gondashepur and conquered Nubia's gardens, that leaves me 1 wonder short. So what are the possible candidates?

And before I discuss, let's discuss the near impossible requirements for an empire with a pre-chosen religion to build pagan wonders!
1. You have to shift your ____state___ religion to pagan. That's 1 precious turn for Persia flushed.
2. The city you are building in needs to be pagan, so luck could screw you if Zoro spreads there. It also means you're not getting any pagan wonders out early in your initial cities. Conquered cities only!
3. Ok, so you met requirements #1 and #2? Cool, let's talk about the CULTURAL requirements, something you are almost certainly unlikely to meet, because you are racing like mad against an insane clock at 300 BC! Athens had an Oracle? Byzantium had a Colussus? Lucky you, now you have to get those cities to _fledgling_ status just to start construction on the pagan wonders.
4. All of this means you're almost certainly not getting Gondashepur out. Definitely not.

Great Library: Requires Mazdaism religion, Philisophy, and Literature. None of these technoligies and that religion are in the path to your UHV victory. So it means you probably aren't getting any Saravans.
Gondashepur: 340 hammers. I wish you luck. Requires Zoro
Great Lighthouse: Requires Shipbuilding, Navigation, Mazdaism religion, 255 hammers, and a coastal city, so I guess that means Byzantium or Athens. You're not getting Saravans. Also fully useless for a mostly landlocked empire like Persia.
Hanging Gardens: You're not building it. Nubia is going to get it. Babylon will never build it. [Makes no sense. Frustrating]
Iron Pillar: If you reach into India, I guess this is possible. Requires Hinduism, Steel, Generalship, 425 hammers, so a productive Indian city. Likely a loss trap
Parthenon: Requires Math and Mazdaism state religion. Greeks arent building it.

Note: Great Mausoleum and Apadana Palace, and Gondashepur require Zoro as state religion, meaning that you can't be building, or need to build them, if you need pagan wonder and you are counting them as well.

Conclusion:
Unless you are lucky incarnate, the pagan wonders won't be ready made, easily reachable, or being built and ready for you to conquer. The UHV #2 goal is impossible without insane luck and multiple AIs constructing things you'll never be able to build yourself.
 
I made an alternate attempt and took down notes. I rushed straight to Greece, even skipping Babylon until after Phoenicia (!). I was able to conquer it without catapults, as they had 1 (newly built) Hoplite, and some archers. Byzantium with a colussus was there again. When I arrived in Egypt, it was in a sorry state, just controlled by Sea Peoples, which is annoying for Persia (hope your elephants/horseman lived!) The desert gap was huger then ever because of the lack of Egyptian development, forcing me to build boats to reinforce for Nubia, slowing everything down alot. And then, a few turns before 300 BC, what happens? Carthage decides to built the Great Cothon? I sent whatever units I had (like5) on a mad dash with the remaining boats to North Africa. Carthage had developed to the east, and also had (I swear) like 8 war galleys ready to sink anyone that didnt land right then and there. So that didn't happen, and the great Engineer to finish Gondashepur was just too slow on the way. This UHV simply isn't possible in the alotted time. I also couldnt get Nubia's gardens as their capital with the gardens had a force too large to attack without my reinforcements still in transit.
 
Just an untested idea - declare a war on Nubia early, but do not really attack. Wouldn't that make them build units and gove Babilon a chance in building of the gardens?
 
Religious shrines are great wonders. Is it feasible to generate any great prophets? You could potentially build the ones for Zoroastrianism and Judaism without any extra techs or conquests.
 
Great idea, I will try this. Thank you so much , I knew there was something I wasn't seeing.
 
Tried your idea. I still lost because the growth of Parsa was stunted in order to get a Great Prophet. This means Gondashepur is not finished. I was unlucky and Colossus didn't get built in Byz because I rushed Greece early [Circumventing Babylon, again]. Look at those trolls in Nubia, this time building Gardens AND Ishtar Gate. Hilarious. This UHV really is cursed and impossible without the god of luck shining brightly on you the whole time from the start to the end. Most of what determines whether you win or lose isn't even controllable by you. I also knocked over India looking for a great shrine. They didn't have one.
 

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Oh, I did get the temple of artemis from Athens though. Never saw that built in any of my other runs.
 
With your help I was able to achieve uhv #2, will provide notes later, but I ended up collapsing from the overextension.... Given that persia has such a small core Im not really sure what to do here, I guess you keep taking cities? And then what happens when you run out of cities to take... [btw, Nubia is foreign, so I didnt touch them in this run...]
 
I finally got the UHV .. Looking through my log
I took
Tushpa in 250 bc [after uhv#2 achieved], margu in 210 bc which gave me a period of stability. Then kushans spawned and got Marv, which caused a stability decline, at 140bc. At 100bc, I started toying with the indepennce status of Byz/Athens looking for an answer. Surprisingly, liberating them and then reconquering them worked, or at least, bought me enough time to spawn a 2nd great person for a big, long golden age to ride out the last 2 cities going to 1000 Culture. I completed around 140AD. I really wanted things completed as soon as possible, as I was afraid of respawns and flips in the middle east.
 
Just won a Persia game on Regent/Normal yesterday and sure is a tough one to get right. Well done! You need some luck with the wonders but don't have any time to spare. I have also tried winning as fast as possible, mainly because a Bizantium spawn can ruin your game.
 
I dont like attacking Greeks early, better to wait for them to complete their wonders. Macedonians are predictable, each stacks lose to 3 Skirmishers and 2 Swordsmen.

The Hittites gives me lot of problem early game. Hulugannis and Archers on hills aren't something we can easily defeat with few elephants and Immortals.
 
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