1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Petition to Remove Set Start Date

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Black_Hole, Jan 26, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    As you can see in the announcements thread, CT has set the date to which we have to start by as March 1st. I would hope we could start a petition to stop this unnessecary limit. This is what hurt DG4 greatly...
    Here is the announcemnet if you can't find it ;) : Announcement
    Post here if you want to join the petition.


    Petition Signers:
    Black_Hole
    ravensfire
    Octavian X
    Eklektikos
    donsig
    Donovan Zoi
    Cyc
     
  2. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    8,802
    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    I wanna play the game. If you want to sit around and discuss things to no end, that's a waste of time. You can spend the time you are using 'organizing a petition' to discuss DG6 and what we can do to start it, rather than what we can do to stop it.

    If we do get March 1st moved back, what do you think is an acceptable date / when do you think we will be ready?
     
  3. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    how about no date... Now we are all smart, we wont spend forever but there are 2 reasons why I dont like this:
    1. We shouldnt just force us to a date to finish something
    2. I don't like the idea of moderators controlling the game beyond enforcing forum rules....
     
  4. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    8,802
    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    You saw what happened with DG5 - in 2 months, we went practically nowhere -> we have lots of proposals for the 'core' constitution - why can't we work off these, poll which one (including traditional) gets the most promising results, and work off that? It utilizes the WOTP and gets the game moving. If I see no progress being made in discussions if we had no start date, why would I want to contribute? It would just get lost in the [endless] discussions..
     
  5. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    You might be right there, I would wholehartedly accept this if it was polled and discussed instead of 1 person deciding on it. I thought this was a Democracy Game
    Even though I am against the idea I wouldnt be petitioning against it if the people decided on it
     
  6. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    24,160
    Location:
    Baltimore
    And it's a democracy game about a game of Civ3, not a game of bueracracy. Take a look at DG1 and DG2. We had rule discussion even as the game was being played.
     
  7. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    its still democratic as all people(not even citizens!) can propose ideas, comment on others ideas, and vote on this.
    Also I would read the def. on bueracracy: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=bureaucracy
    You will find this is quite the opposite as its not about complex hierachy and decision making but a simple democracy
     
  8. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    24,160
    Location:
    Baltimore
    You should also remember that in a poll I did on why people left, 1/3 replied it was because of bueracracy and legal bickering. This isn't fun stuff. There was a forum for this once, called "Model Parliament". If you want to go start that up again, be my guest, but this is a demogame, which involves discussions on gameplay of a civ game. I'm pretty sure if we waste 5 months on discussing the ruleset (slowly), then people's attention will be turning to Civ4.
     
  9. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    Some people somewhat like that stuff... If you did a poll this DG, a large number of them probably left because of a horrible ruleset, which is because of our abrupt start... 5 monthes is a large exaggeration, I do believe we can get it done this month, but it cant be a set time, then things are rushed together and such.
     
  10. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    24,160
    Location:
    Baltimore
    There was nothing stopping you from amending it. Just because the game started doesn't mean you can't continue to add to the constitution.

    Now, something like DG4 where there were daily judicial reviews was definately overkill.
     
  11. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    5,281
    Location:
    Gateway to the West
    /s/ Signed.

    We have have it FINISHED this time BEFORE we start. No more of this "oh, we'll just get it done sometime." We get it DONE.

    CT - if you want to help, truly, truly help, do what DZ did in DG3 (or was is 4) - push the discussions along in an orderly manner. Not interfering with the process, but speeding the decisions up, polling as needed, proding as needed.

    Actually, I'll extend that plea to all moderators. If you want to help speed the process up, then speed the process up. CT, you should know by now that setting an arbitrary deadline does abolsolutely no good. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  12. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    24,160
    Location:
    Baltimore
    I did try to push the discussions along by planning on posting threads, then someone shouted me out and essentially said, "No offense, but I'll do it myself". :rolleyes:
     
  13. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    Ever heard of a PM? Your doing this is the worst thing that could have happened. If Eyrei or Rik did it, there probably wouldn't have been any disagreement, and if one of the ordinary folk like myself or Ravensfire did it there would be no disagreement at all.

    If I were Trump, you'd be fired. :lol:
     
  14. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,428
    Location:
    deceiving people with images
    I'll add a signature to the list. Let's work this out properly, especially given the vigor dedicated to a few of the alternative government proposals.
     
  15. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    Go for March 1 (Mars) , that is a good choice, and we can even allow ourselves a grace period till 8 of March to let the new first term government get into position.
    I remember with agony the time lost in arguing the capital placement and the settler move. We can still be lenient on tweaking the game in the first week.
     
  16. Eklektikos

    Eklektikos Eponymous

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,635
    Location:
    London, UK
    Understandably so, since it did look rather like an attempt to wrest control of the process from those who had originally taken responsibility for it. I ascribe no malice nor ulterior motive to you and sincerely believe that you were just trying to help out, but in my opinion you'd do more good by contributing to the existing discussions than by setting arbitrary deadlines and churning out a plethora of threads prefixed by "OFFICIAL DISCUSSION".

    Petition signed.
     
  17. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    24,160
    Location:
    Baltimore
    That's just the point. You obviously have something against me as if I'm sitting here saying, "Gee, let's make some big conspiracy!". I would advise that you cut it with your attitude...
     
  18. Scuffer

    Scuffer Scuffer says...

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,655
    Location:
    First in the active user list!
    See, I'd love to join the demo game. Every now and again, I think, "yeah, a whole bunch of people cooperating to have a good fun game of civ, where I can learn some stuff, add my 2p, and generally enjoy it"

    But every time I do think that, I read a thread like this and I realise that it isn't going to happen like that. It's going to be a whole lot of bickering about stuff that really isn't important, and that the bickering over nothing seems to be more important than the game.

    Sorry for barging into your forum and thread and thread like this, but I thought it might be useful to have an 'outsider looking in' point of view.
     
  19. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    827
    It's really not all that bad. Most of the quarreling is consigned to a few people with long-standing vendettas. Most of us DG folk are cooperative, constructive citizens. We just really like to voice our opinions. ;)
     
  20. Scuffer

    Scuffer Scuffer says...

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,655
    Location:
    First in the active user list!
    Thanks. I'll come back and have another look when all the official discussions are over :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page