PH07: The School of Athens

[pholkhero]

Warlords, 2.08, no mod's or special AI

The School of Athens shows the greatest philosophers, scientists and mathematicians of classical antiquity. Plato and Aristotle, the Greek philosophers that were considered most important, are standing in the center of the composition at the top of the steps. Plato is holding his Timaeus. Aristotle is carrying a copy of his Nichomachean Ethics. Their gestures correspond to their interests in the philosophical field - Plato is pointing upwards towards Heaven and Aristotle is gesturing towards the earth.

The aim of this SG is to set up our very own "School of Athens," i.e., run a specialist economy. I have very little experience with this type of economy, and would like to try it out. All in all, a very simple concept, no?

Rivals: 6
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Fractal
Mapsize: Standard, Cylindrical
Climate: Temperate
Water level: Normal
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Normal
Victory Conditions: All enabled, but we can only win by Diplo, Cultural or Space
Variant Settings: NO COTTAGES. [Obviously, if there's no source of water nearby, we *can* use cottages, but they must be farmed over as soon as Civil Service is discovered. Also, if we conquer a city with cottages, farms must be laid down everywhere possible as soon as possible.]

Roster:
1. Pholkhero
2. Codeman
3. Warpoo
4. Lukep
5. Open

alternate: Pigswill??

Standard SG rules and etiquette, please: 24 hours to post a got-it, 48 from then to play. If something comes up, let us know ASAP.

 

[pholkhero]

I moved both units, and think we should found athens where our settler is now. Agriculture and a warrior first I think.

 

[Codeman]

i would love to join you, however i am only a prince player so will have to lurk. i to wish to strengthen my abilities in the specialist economy so look forward to learning alot from your game.

 

[ruff_hi]

Pholk - the latest I have seen regarding a specialist economy recommends running your capital as a cottaged city, with your other cities being farmed. thus you get the most leverage out of bureaucracy.

 

[Warpoo]

ill join. Its the only way to fly.

 

[lukep]

I would be interested.

I generally run SE, but always end going domination. So that would be a change.

Though, i agree with ruff_hi about capital. if you really want to leverage bureaucracy, better to use some cottage there.

 

[pigswill]

I'm tempted to join but I'm playing a few SGs at the moment. Also I'm a novice at SE myself. You could put me down as an alternate if you don't get enough brave volunteers (or you could just tell me to sling my hook ).

 

[pholkhero]

i would love to join you, however i am only a prince player so will have to lurk. i to wish to strengthen my abilities in the specialist economy so look forward to learning alot from your game.

I don't think being only a Prince player would disqualify you, and could only help your game playing an SG at Monarch. I'm going to include you, but if you want out, let us know!

Pholk - the latest I have seen regarding a specialist economy recommends running your capital as a cottaged city, with your other cities being farmed. thus you get the most leverage out of bureaucracy.

well, i really already know how to leverage bureaucracy ~ to be honest, i'd like to keep it all farms in the capital as well. [however, if everyone else is adamant about cottaging up Athens, I will reconsider.]

ill join. Its the only way to fly.

You're in!

I would be interested.

And you ~

You could put me down as an alternate if you don't get enough brave volunteers (or you could just tell me to sling my hook ).

I will keep you as an alternate then for now, but prepare to be drafted if the need arises.

Roster updated.

We're still looking for one more. This first round, we'll all play 20 (note the Normal play speed ~ to cut down on our warmaking), and then drop to ten.

I'll play mine tonight.

 

[Warpoo]

Since, im a war crazed madman i use specialist all the time. We need to get CoL. ASAP.

Once we get priesthood, we should be researching writing while building the oracle. On marathon speed, the AI usually makes the oracle by 900-800 bc. As long as we dont go to war too early we should be able to make that wonder. I would also suggest not making it in our capital. We will need Athens for max research.

imo thats the only wonder worth building and maybe the great library. I musten forget the pyramids, I like those for the GE and represention.

We also need writing very soon.

 

[johnny_rico]

What a disgustingly good capital. Cottage it hard and it will pay for your entire empire. Research will go through the roof. With all those Floodplains and the rice, you'll be able to run specialists here as well. If you wind up getting Plato or Aristotle as a great person, you should settle them in Athens.

You should try to found a religion and pop a shrine in the capital as well. It will be so wealthy. Have fun.

 

[Ozbenno]

What is it with SE SGs at the moment

If you can't win with that capital you're in trouble.

 

[Zophos]

Yow...that filled up fast. Lurk mode activated.

Pholk, would'ja mind posting the 4000BC start file? I'm gonna play a shadow game one of these days.

 

[pholkhero]

Turn 2/460 (3960 BC) [07-May-2007 18:52:32]
I moved our scout to the good hut, and grabbed some gold. Not much, but every little bit counts.

Founded Athens, and am heading for Mining, not Agr. Since I'm going warrior first, we don't need Agr right off the bat.

Turn 8/460 (3720 BC) [07-May-2007 18:54:29]
I grabbed another hut, and again only a tiny bit of gold

Turn 9/460 (3680 BC) [07-May-2007 18:54:36]
Mining comes in, and I head for BW for now. I'll switch to Agr when we start building our worker.

Barb animals also appear as a Panther blocks my passage to a jungled hill there.

Turn 10/460 (3640 BC) [07-May-2007 18:55:34]
He found me anyway, but we fought him off on the IBT.

While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.68/1): Barbarian Panther (Prob Victory: 89.4%)

We also find a neighbor:

another Philosopher King!

IBT:

Turn 11/460 (3600 BC) [07-May-2007 18:56:04]

Turn 13/460 (3520 BC) [07-May-2007 18:56:32]
Our warrior is done, just as our scout was eaten by lions. Fate? I went for a worker next, and swapped research from BW to Agr. It'll be done in 8, just as I am with my set.

Turn 16/460 (3400 BC) [07-May-2007 18:59:01]
Our warrior avenged our scout!!

While defending in the wild near Athens, Warrior I of Athens (Warrior) defeats (1.10/2): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 99.5%)

Turn 21/460 (3200 BC) [07-May-2007 18:59:50]
Okay, that's 20 ~ it sure flew by. Agr just finished and we have 9 turns until BW comes in. Hopefully we'll have a nearby source for some Phalanxes (sp?).

Here's a few overview shots.

Our warrior is to the SE healing up. He should be ready in a turn or two to explore some more around Athens. I'm still thikning we should go w/farms everywhere as that IS the point of the exercise here. We'll be able to work those gold hills and that other plains one for some good prod and natural comerce ~ not too mention the tiny bit from river commerce.

 

[pholkhero]

@ Zophos: Pigswill wanted to be an alternate as he's committed to several SGs now, I think, so you're in if you'd like. If not, let me know and I'll post the start file.

Roster:
First Round, 20 Turns
Pholkhero >> just played
Codeman >> UP NOW
Warpoo >> on deck
Lukep >>
Zophos >>

 

[Codeman]

at work now but will play in about 12 hours.

after BW should we go for masonry or head towards writing? we don't have stone in any of the shots above so i doubt we can get pyramids before AI. although with the hammers from the mined hills and the food from farms in athens... is it possible?

thoughts?

 

[pholkhero]

I would see if you can explore a bit more before BW comes due; you'll have 9 turns. If we can find stone, it's worth a run at Masonry and the wonder.

If not, w/o any forests to chop and only 3 hills, I don't think we would win the Pyramids race, esp if there's an Industrial civ around. We could, however, plan on taking it from someone

I think we should head for writing if there's no stone. I don't *think* there's any other techs we need in the short-run, and the faster we get a library up, the faster we can start generating GSs. I think it might be good to try for the Great Library, so Literature sooner rather than later will be good, as will a run on PHilosophy (or we can just pop is with a GS) for Caste System, but that's for later.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

Damn! Serves me right for getting my Wii yesterday and unplugging the rest of the world. Sounds fun. Maybe Z and I can play the start file as a cottage spam and see which does better?

 

[Codeman]

I would see if you can explore a bit more before BW comes due; you'll have 9 turns. If we can find stone, it's worth a run at Masonry and the wonder.

agreed. what i was thinking.

We could, however, plan on taking it from someone

I think we should head for writing if there's no stone.

i concur.

 

[patagonia]

Pholk - the latest I have seen regarding a specialist economy recommends running your capital as a cottaged city, with your other cities being farmed. thus you get the most leverage out of bureaucracy.

No cottages ever is perfectly feasible as Gryman's excellent thread illustrates.

You can use bureaucracy to leverage production if need be (and Athens has 2 gold mines so it's not doing badly in terms of cottage-less commerce anyway), but by focusing your wealth production in a city that can run a lot of merchants (preferably coastal to benefit from increased trade-route commerce) you're free to use other nifty civics such as nationhood and vassalage without harming the economy.

Be warned that running an SE optimally requires quite a lot of MM.

PS if the start makes the Pyramids a no-go, using the Oracle for early caste system is a reasonable backup plan.

 

[Codeman]

Okay. Here it is.

Turns 1, 2, & 3 continue to explore with the warrior. Went east-northeast. Found a coast line.

In turn 4 Athens finished the worker, so I started a warrior. This would help with exploring and fog busting. I assigned the worker to farm the floodplane north of Athens. Of course, I had the warrior continue to explore to the east northeast.

IBT --- Peter founds and switches to Buddhism. Our exploring warrior kills a wolf.

Turns 5, 6, 7, & 8 were spent exploring more. In turn 9 Bronze Working came in > masonry. Still a lot of unexplored territory in the close north; and more exploring. Turn 10 was more exploring.

Turn 11 brought a little more to do. Athens produced another warrior, the worker finished the farm and was moved to the gold NW of Athens. Move new warrior NW to speed up exploring... 1st warrior founbd a village, and they gave as another warrior. This 3rd warrior I moved NW to bust some more fog. I can now see some tundra, and the border of a neighbor.

IBT=> Our first warrior was killed by a lion.

12. Both remaining warriors continue to explore. We meet our northern neighbor, and the worker begins mining.

13. Exploring.

IBT Our newest warrior is attacked by a lion and a wolf. And he survives. He spends the remainer of my command healing.

14. Continue exploring our north.

IBT Hinduism FIDL.

15. Exploring and healing...

16. Athens completes another warrior>warrior. I think we should get one more before a settler. Send this new warrior SW towards a hill for exploring or fog busting.

17. Warriors continue... Northern warrior found the stone. It's northeast of Athens. Worker finished the mine, start towards rice.

18. Masonry>Archery. Think we may need some better units. Have the worker farm the rice. Warriors continue...

19 & 20. Same.

Athens is at happiness limit. Several (I think 8) turns from growing. If connect gold would help. Had citizens working forest for the extra hammer to get some units out. Did not switch to slavery yet to avoid slowing research. Will need to beat Louis to the stone.

Suggested new city site?

Here are some current shots.