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PH09: The King and We

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by pholkhero, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,515
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    This SG has no funny hook or complicated ruleset.

    It has one objective: Just Win.

    I have yet to win a game on Monarch on my normal settings w/a random leader and map, and so here i am looking for a few good SGers ~

    Version: BtS 3.13 (i'm also using the BUG mod, too, but that doesn't matter)
    Leader/Civilization: Random
    Rivals: 1d4 + 5
    Difficulty: Monarch
    Map: Random
    Size: Standard
    Speed: Epic
    Victory Conditions: All enabled
    Other Settings: AGGRESSIVE AI, NO TECH BROKERING, CHOOSE RELIGIONS

    We will also be using the Deviant Minds SG Etiquette Guidelines, so please be aware:
    Spoiler the DMSGEG :

    Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win. Remember, your report should be a new reply to alert other players.

    Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the F9 screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while.

    Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Punk out two times in a row, and you’ll be dropped from the roster. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.

    Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) should be arrived at via group consensus.
    1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
    2. However, if there’s no consensus and you’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way.
    3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency.
    4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great (war declarations, birth of Great People, even some quests), players should stop, and refer the question to the group.

    Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

    Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude. See any SG I or other DMers have been in to see what I mean.

    Golf: Automate sparingly.
    1. Workers should almost never be automated, except perhaps late-game or building a trade network. However, if you have to, set your game options to “disallow automated worker forest chopping” and “keep previous improvements.”
    2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine, but let the group know and explain your reasoning (specialization is a major game decision). If you prevent growth in a city, let the group know and remind them to take it off. Do NOT let the governor select build orders.
    3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable only if they’re heading for a rally point or if you otherwise inform your teammates.

    Hotel: NEVER fortify Great People. Just press enter for 15 turns. Is that so hard?

    India: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it.


    Once I get some sign-ups, I'll roll up the leader, map, etc, and post a save.

    Roster
    01. pholkhero
    02. pigswill
    03. GreyFox
    04. beserks01
    05. Crotazzo
    06. Simon_c
    07. Negyvenketto
     
  2. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Signing up (tho I'm not sure if I'm a good SGer). Is this vanilla or warlords or bts? (Idle curiosity).
     
  3. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,515
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    @ Pigs ~ you're in. I updated the roster and added a 'version' line, but it's BtS 3.13

    I rolled up the map and # of rivals:
    it'll be highlands (ridgelines, thin peaks, seas and flat wrap) with 6 rivals ~ i think i'm going to go w/a small map since Highlands plays like such a large map
     
  4. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

    Joined:
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    Philadelphia
    one person is "some sign-ups" right? :lol:

    I rolled up the conditions and start:
    Version: BtS 3.13 (i'm also using the BUG mod, too, but that doesn't matter)
    Leader/Civilization: Montezuma of the Aztecs

    Rivals: 6 ~ Bismarck, Qin Shi Huang, Ramesses, Napoleon, Saladin, Churchill
    Difficulty: Monarch
    Map: Highlands (Ridgelines, Thin Peaks, Seas, Flat)
    Size: Small (down from Standard since Highlands has much land)
    Speed: Epic
    Victory Conditions: All enabled
    Other Settings: AGGRESSIVE AI, NO TECH BROKERING, CHOOSE RELIGIONS

    and our start, where the scout has already moved:


    :( I'm not overjoyed by that start, but it's appropriate for Tenochtitlan to be in the middle of a lake.

    With Monty, we should really think of a military win (Conquest or Dom).

    Maybe early religion and an Oracle-CoL sling to unlock our UB. We'd be competing w/Saladin for the first religion, but hopefully Polytheism would do it for us.

    Also, let's not forget the much-derided Jaguars. Let's whip out an army of conquest and never stop the sacrifices ~ keep whipping out troops all game!

    So, anyone else interested, or does that start scare you away? ;) :)
     
  5. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Where No One Has Gone Before
    Seeing as Fox07 completes and I a too lazy to start another, I will join.

    A lake? Since when do you see a lake with whales in it? Loch Ness Monsters?

    Obviously settle in place, go for fishing while building something (whatever, warrior, barracks, even stonehenge). The question is to go for Fishing first or Poly first? I am inclined to go Fishing first then Poly.

    Now, that's lots of talk for someone who hadn't been accepted into the roster ... :rolleyes:
     
  6. berserks01

    berserks01 Obviously Very Confused

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,727
    Location:
    MA
    I've heard tales that with BtS all the levels go up one. So Monarch is the old Emperor level in Warlords or something to that affect. I dunno if it's true or not, but I'm only able to win Prince at around 1100-1200 AD which used to be my Monarch win dates in Warlord.

    Having said that, how good are the SGers are you looking for? Good as in, "DAMN, I'm good". Or good as in, "Hmmm...guess I'm good"?
     
  7. Crotazzo

    Crotazzo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    i would like to join too... same question as berserks :D .. (im new in bts, i would need some guidance in the new concepts of the game) in warlords i was able to win 2 out of 3 monarch games (1 dom and 1 culture)
     
  8. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    @ All ~ you guys are in ~ not looking for the "damn, i'm good" kind ~ just the "i don't know, maybe I'm good" kind :D (and good to meet ya, Crotazzo) ~ roster updated ~ also keep in mind that we've got Agg AI on. I have YET to win with these settings in about 7 or 8 games (though I did just win my first monarch BtS :horntoot: )

    as far as first techs, while fishing does sound tempting, i'm more inclined to poly ~ w/Saladin out there, i'm afraid we may not get a religion. I think good diplo (and a good army) are MUST HAVEs on Agg AI, and having our own would do wonders for that.

    That being said, we *could* hope for Saladin's to spread to us, but I still think i'd prefer Poly > Fishing; that way we have a little more control over the matter.

    and i assume, we're all for settling in place? THat marble will come in handy for the Oracle . . .

    I'm up in RotQM5 anyway, so won't play for until tomorrow, so please throw in your 2 cents as well. You all should be like Fox ~ just assume you're in and throw out suggestions ;) :)

    also, I'll still take one more person ~
     
  9. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Has the AI's inclination of going for Mediation first change? If not, I don't see the necessity to go for Poly first.

    While marble is tempting for wonder, remember we are short of hammers until Maoi Statues is available.

    Glad to see Crotazzo ... hopefully this one has more success compared with the previous one we arewere in ;)

    --
     
  10. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    well, in blake's old patch (pre-BtS) some AIs would go Med, and some Poly ~ we could see Saladin go for Med, w/maybe Ramesses going Myst > Poly
     
  11. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    I heard differently ... in default BtS, the difficulties go one level down. That's supposedly due to the "better AI" and thus AI are given less bonus. That's also why Blake has been screaming abt instead of Aggressive AI as option, "Aggressive AI" should be made default, and should be "Passive AI" (= current default) as option.

    But then, we have Aggressive AI turned on, so yeah I expect difficulty level to go half-a-level up vis-a-vis Warlords.

    But then again, I have always found the starting location to vastly alter the difficulties -- I could breeze past Emperor with a good start, and struggle at Prince with a bad one.

    But then yet again, those were experience of Warlords and Vanilla. ;)
     
  12. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    i think blake's theory was that on a truly challenging level, the player should win 1 out of n times, where n=the total number of players (player + rival AIs).

    his statements regarding Agg AI are WHY i only play with it on. of course, it's also why i have yet to win on monarch :rolleyes: and why i started this SG!
     
  13. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    berkshire, england
    The main question is: are we going to beeline optics for the whales?

    A more trivial question: if we're going for Oracle/CoL we'd almost certainly pick up confu in the process so do we need another religion? Fishing first would boost our research nicely.
     
  14. negyvenketto

    negyvenketto Scientist

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Location:
    Hungary
    Is the roster full or can you squeeze me in? I'm looking for a new SG, too.
     
  15. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Turn 0/750 (4000 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:31:22]
    Settled in place:
    Tenochtitlan founded

    You all ultimately convinced me to go Fishing first, so Research begun: Fishing (9 Turns). I also decided we need some sort of defense, so Tenochtitlan begins: Warrior (8 turns)

    Turn 2/750 (3950 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:32:55]
    Popped a map from a goody hut west of Tenoch:

    and headed for that other hut in the NW corner of the newly-revealed map portion.

    Turn 7/750 (3825 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:34:22]

    nice! I so rarely get techs from huts.

    Turn 8/750 (3800 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:34:37]
    Our borders expanded the same turn as the 1st Tenochtitlan Warriors were recruited, and i'm going to waste a turn building a Monument until Fishing is done

    Turn 9/750 (3775 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:35:38]
    Next turn, Fishing came in, and i wanted to get some religion. To answer Pigswill, I want an early religion so that we can spread it faster, and make some friends early on in order to keep their raging hordes off our doorstep. Research begun: Polytheism (15 Turns) Poly went from 18 to 15 w/fishing, so let's cross our fingers.

    I also started the WB (45 turns) (but i'm also working all commerce/no shield sea tiles so . . .

    I kept exploring w/our scout, heading south.

    Turn 12/750 (3700 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:37:01]
    Contact made: English Empire

    Shhh....no wakey, wakey. Winnie so sleepy :lol:

    Also, i noticed that Islam was FIDL ~ guess Saladin went w/Meditation so things are looking good for us.

    Turn 13/750 (3675 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:37:53]
    gah, our warrior popped a hut right near Tenoch, and got another map

    looks like we're in the top-right corner. and i also sent our scout to that hut right outside England's borders.

    Tribal village results: a little gold Feels good to snag that hut right out from Winnies's nose ~ but what do you expect? he's asleep at the wheel!

    Turn 18/750 (3550 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:39:58]
    And look where our poor scout ended up:

    pray for him ;)

    IBT:
    While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (1.00/1): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 95.6%)
    While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.52/1): Barbarian Wolf (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

    Turn 19/750 (3525 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:40:25]
    We won both of those animal battles, and i took Guerilla I as the scout's promo. Figured that would serve us well on a Highlands map.

    Turn 21/750 (3475 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:41:08]
    Tenoch grows to pop2, and cuts one more turn off Poly after rejiggering the tiles.

    And then, a couple turns later:



    I almost always choose Taoism as my first religion, unless the civ has one that would fit it more. Good call not-me's, on going w/Fishing first. I also made it our state religion, too. After Poly, i went for Bronze Working. I wasn't sure at first, thinking maybe archery might be more worthwhile in the short-term, but old habits die hard, i guess.

    Oh, and i noticed the english got a wicked random event before the tech screen popped up:

    well, wicked for us, that is.

    Nothing much else happened but another animal attack While defending in the wild near Tenochtitlan, Scout defeats (0.78/1): Barbarian Wolf (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

    We kept exploring when possible, and that was my 30.

    Turn 30/750 (3250 BC) [12-Oct-2007 15:45:04]
    The WB is done and i sent it to a clams. i initially started on another, but swapped to a warrior (8 turns). We already have 3/10s the military as Churchill, though i wonder if that event helped him along at all! Either that or he's mass producing archers. In any case, we can't be left defenseless, eh?

    Here's the known world:

    Not a *whole* lot going on resource-wise, but at least we'll have a couple 'safe' cities across the sea east and north of us.

    and check out the overlay ~

    didn't even notice France over that way ~ perhaps we should stop by and say 'bone-sewer' . . .
     
  16. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    also, welcome Simon_c, an SG virgin :clap: :hatsoff: was going to stick him after Fox for a baptism by fire, but figured that was a bit too mean.

    Roster
    pholkhero >> just played
    pigswill >> UP NOW for 25 turns
    GreyFox >> on deck for 20
    beserks01
    Crotazzo
    Simon_c

    starting w/beserks, we'll each be playing 15 turns, the standard for peacetime
     

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  17. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    well, actually it was full, but i would take you in, if you like ~
     
  18. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Its probably my age :old: but I'd rather have a short report with a save than a long report without a save :p . (Or even a save shoved at the end of the next post as a casual afterthought).
     
  19. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    no casual afterthought ~ i wanted to put up a separate post w/the roster and save in one place so there :p
     
  20. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Got it......

    Welcome Simon_c.

    Playing an sg with pholkhero is so much fun that you hardly notice that you've lost :lol: .
     

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