Philosophy of Physics

[WillJ]

I always thought this stuff was fascinating. Seems like quite a few here agree, as we've had plenty of threads relating to it.

So how do I go about studying it? It'd be nice to have a fairly deep understanding of it, not just know a bunch of scientific terms to throw around and impress Aunt Suzy. The most obvious answer would be to take my high school's physics course and study physics some in college, but then I have to put up with boring crap like this:



I'm perfectly willing to do this, but only if it leads to the more interesting (and by that I mean having philosophical implications) stuff. I fear most physics courses, especially introductory ones, quite simply don't (besides touching on it a couple times here and there). Am I right or wrong here?

Of course, if school fails me, I can always educate myself. What books would you recommend?

 

[Xenocrates]

So I'm right in thinking that you're not interested in the calculation, but in the underlying principles?

If so, philosophy may be a better choice, but be careful as studying something that you don't care about is a life-breaker.

 

[nonconformist]

That question's stupidly worded.

 

[WillJ]

So I'm right in thinking that you're not interested in the calculation, but in the underlying principles?

Yep, although I'm willing to do the calculations (within reason) if it's necessary to understand the principles (and I'd be very surprised if that's not the case).

If so, philosophy may be a better choice

But my guess is that a philosopher of physics who's never actually studied physics is talking up his ass.

but be careful as studying something that you don't care about is a life-breaker.

I know that from studying literary analysis. Oh, and keep in mind I don't intend on making this my career or anything...

That question's stupidly worded.

What question, in what way?

 

[nonconformist]

What question?

The physics question.

As a physics student, I cannae make head nor tail of it.

 

[WillJ]

The physics question.

As a physics student, I cannae make head nor tail of it.

Turns out I copied-and-pasted the wrong illustration.

Sorry, corrected.

 

[Sidhe]

Will absolutely you can get a good understanding of the principles of physics by surfing the net, but to come off sounding knowledgeable you have to understand the maths principles behind it it seems, I often embarasse myself in that I know the theory about certain things but have yet to study the maths in depth so a real fundemental understanding is beyond me atm.

I do however think an interest in broad concepts of physics is a good place to start, but it is contrary to the way it is taught now and it is very much a first step and my opinion.

 

[Corlindale]

Try studying Philosophy, then you get all the good metaphysical stuff about underlying principles and scientific theory without the "boring" calculations and practical experiments. Of course it will require you to be interested in the other branches of philosophy as well, as I don't think scientific theory is the subject that gets the most time at the fundamental level of study.

 

[nonconformist]

Turns out I copied-and-pasted the wrong illustration.

Sorry, corrected.

And what he hell is "Most nearly"?

 

[aneeshm]

I'd recommend studying Sanskrit philology as a complement to philosophy . And by the way - the answer is 5 Newtons .

 

[Sidhe]

Ok 1/5 marks now show your working

 

[WillJ]

Will absolutely you can get a good understanding of the principles of physics by surfing the net, but to come off sounding knowledgeable you have to understand the maths principles behind it it seems, I often embarasse myself in that I know the theory about certain things but have yet to study the maths in depth so a real fundemental understanding is beyond me atm.

I do however think an interest in broad concepts of physics is a good place to start, but it is contrary to the way it is taught now and it is very much a first step and my opinion.

So would the classes that teach the math also teach the philosophy? That's what I'm getting at, I guess.

Try studying Philosophy, then you get all the good metaphysical stuff about underlying principles and scientific theory without the "boring" calculations and practical experiments. Of course it will require you to be interested in the other branches of philosophy as well, as I don't think scientific theory is the subject that gets the most time at the fundamental level of study.

I doubt I'm going to "study philosophy" in the sense of majoring in it (although maybe I will, since I'm interested in the other branches of it as well), and the same goes for physics. What I'm asking is if being able to take a few classes in the philosophy of physics (or something close to this) is possible or not.

Edit: Oh, and sorry if I offended anyone by calling the rest of physics "boring."

And what he hell is "Most nearly"?

Maybe the answer has to be rounded off?

I'd recommend studying Sanskrit philology as a complement to philosophy .

Hmm, I smell bias.

 

[Sidhe]

Will I can tell you that theories outside of classical physics do indeed resemble a more philosophical framework but even they are based on some very complicated mathematical equations, sometimes involving many dimensions, understanding of which is key to philosophical suposition, some theories involve rewriting the equations of newtonian physics itself, but to really get a grip you have to know the basics. It does no harm to learn about abstract stuff about locality and about superposition and all these wonderfull concepts that lie behind advanced physics, but I'm afraid at some point if you really want to know what is going on you need to bite the bullet and solve the equations.

Get a look at publications like New Scientist, Scientific American if your interested they have great overviews of the ideas behind modern physics, without going into too much depth for a layman. If they peak your interest then I'd encourage you to get into the maths in a big way. I have a colleague at work who spends a great deal of time explaining my misconceptions of physics, but then he has a P.h.D. Also try joining some forums, they have sections devoted to all areas of physics including metaphysics and they'll try to make you understand your ideas at a level you can apreciate.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Back when I were a lad, my physics course at university was called "Natural Philosophy" rather than "Physics". They did allow you to have it described as either on your degree certificate, but I rather liked the older, slightly pompous name, so I stuck with that. Still, that was in a previous century, so I'm not sure it helps anyone very much at all...

((Grandpa falls back to sleep in his rocking chair....))

 

[WillJ]

Will I can tell you that theories outside of classical physics do indeed resemble a more philosophical framework but even they are based on some very complicated mathematical equations, sometimes involving many dimensions, understanding of which is key to philosophical suposition, some theories involve rewriting the equations of newtonian physics itself, but to really get a grip you have to know the basics. It does no harm to learn about abstract stuff about locality and about superposition and all these wonderfull concepts that lie behind advanced physics, but I'm afraid at some point if you really want to know what is going on you need to bite the bullet and solve the equations.

That's fine with me, really. Let me phrase the problem like this, though: It's not that I'm afraid of physics, as it's traditionally taught, involving too much math, but rather not enough philosophy (for my tastes). Do you think that's true?

Get a look at publications like New Scientist, Scientific American if your interested they have great overviews of the ideas behind modern physics, without going into too much depth for a layman. If they peak your interest then I'd encourage you to get into the maths in a big way. I have a colleague at work who spends a great deal of time explaining my misconceptions of physics, but then he has a P.h.D. Also try joining some forums, they have sections devoted to all areas of physics including metaphysics and they'll try to make you understand your ideas at a level you can apreciate.

I've read Scientific American before, and yep, it has peaked my interest. I might join a forum, but then again on the Internet no one knows you're a dog.

Back when I were a lad, my physics course at university was called "Natural Philosophy" rather than "Physics". They did allow you to have it described as either on your degree certificate, but I rather liked the older, slightly pompous name, so I stuck with that. Still, that was in a previous century, so I'm not sure it helps anyone very much at all...

((Grandpa falls back to sleep in his rocking chair....))

Did you have to carve the equations into blocks of wood?

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Did you have to carve the equations into blocks of wood?

Papyrus.
.

 

[tomsnowman123]

You could do physics, then move on to something like astrophysics, which is more complicated, perplexing, contorversial, thought provoking, and it is constantly changing.

 

[Mise]

A degree in physics will teach you many things about the way the universe works, but it's largely up to you to put any sort of philosophical meaning to that. To be honest, if you're after the meaning of life, you should do something else. If you want an in-depth mathematical description of the universe and the laws and processes that govern its evolution, you should do Physics. If you can't do the maths, don't even bother

Oh, since you asked about high-school and a course in college, I should point out that they probably won't teach you anything particularly earthshattering...

 

[Kyriakos]

Mechanical physics (of which your example in the OP is part of) is not about a cosmo-theoretic model made by physics. Since in late highschool i was in the scientific direction (i studied physics, mathematics, chemistry) i used to be generally aware of most basic principles in various fields, like that in mechanical physics, electric fields, and thermodynamic (by now i have forgotten almost everything though ).

Mechanical physics is used practically in jobs like political engineering, where they calculate the various dynamic forces of objects so as to ensure that a building will not collapse if the logically expected forces which will affect it, do affect it (eg the mass of its higher parts, or the winds, or anticipated earthquakes).

From what i gather the most interesting fields of physics nowdays are astrophysics, and also the microcosm (several micro-particles and their forces).

I wouldnt really say that physics has a philosophy; it rather touches on the surface some more theoretical issues with which philosophy is dealing with. I would say that philosophy is more related to psychology nowdays (philosophy of the mind). However i am not familiar with physics that well anymore

 

[WillJ]

To be honest, if you're after the meaning of life, you should do something else.

Not quite what I meant, of course. See below.

If you can't do the maths, don't even bother

I can do the math as long as there's motivation.

Oh, since you asked about high-school and a course in college, I should point out that they probably won't teach you anything particularly earthshattering...

So when do you get to the earthshattering stuff? Although maybe we disagree on what's "earthshattering."

A degree in physics will teach you many things about the way the universe works, but it's largely up to you to put any sort of philosophical meaning to that. ... If you want an in-depth mathematical description of the universe and the laws and processes that govern its evolution, you should do Physics.

I can sorta see what you're saying about the philosophy being up to me, but partly I think you misunderstand what I'm after.

Mechanical physics (of which your example in the OP is part of) is not about a cosmo-theoretic model made by physics. Since in late highschool i was in the scientific direction (i studied physics, mathematics, chemistry) i used to be generally aware of most basic principles in various fields, like that in mechanical physics, electric fields, and thermodynamic (by now i have forgotten almost everything though ).

Mechanical physics is used practically in jobs like political engineering, where they calculate the various dynamic forces of objects so as to ensure that a building will not collapse if the logically expected forces which will affect it, do affect it (eg the mass of its higher parts, or the winds, or anticipated earthquakes).

Oh, I fully realize that the physics like in that problem I mentioned is extremely practical, if that's what you're saying. But calculating the effects of a gust of wind isn't that stimulating to me.

From what i gather the most interesting fields of physics nowdays are astrophysics, and also the microcosm (several micro-particles and their forces).

I agree, actually.

I wouldnt really say that physics has a philosophy; it rather touches on the surface some more theoretical issues with which philosophy is dealing with.

That's sorta what I meant, really. Here are some topics that have input from both philosophers and physicists, from what I can tell (if not, they're still interesting and they're still what I'm talking about ):

cause and effect, randomness
origin of the universe
size of the universe, multiple universes
the arrow of time
wave-particle duality, complementarity
fundamental particles and forces