Pie's Ancient Europe

Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
764
Location
Spain GMT+1
@wolfman and our Spanish friends: There are still city names like Porto, Andorra and Bilbao in the Iberian's city lists. Are you happy with that?


Hi Keinpferd, i would chose iberian and celiberian tribes names better than city names, there were cities like Saguntum in the years of the 2nd Punic War, but i think tribes represent better the idea. Its only my thoughts.

http://dbahispano.blogspot.com/2007/08/los-pueblos-beros.html
 

Barak

Emperor
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
1,516
Location
Chicago
i know that in the new patch there are supposed to be fewer bad events, but I seem to be getting comets, sea storms and tornadoes every few turns. I also seem to be getting insurgents far too often. I know that the RNG has a lot to do with it, but I am waiting for SOMETHING positive. So far the only positive thing I have gotten is a quest to built chariots, that offered not much in the way of reward (upgrading all to combat one).

I have not gotten any instant golden ages, no free GP, no improved lands. Just comets, tornadoes, seas storms, and giant space aliens (ok, none of those....yet)

I also kind of get bored in the late mid game as the AI does not declare war, and there is nothing interesting to build.

edit: Just after posting i get a quest to build libraries while playing as Numidia, who CAN'T build libraries!
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
922
Location
54°30′59″N, 128°35'59"W
 

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
54°30′59″N, 128°35'59"W
 

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jimmygeo

Warlord
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
234
Location
Alberta, Canada
Pie, The progressive cost increase for some (too many) units is NOT working as described. I began upgrading biremes as soon as I got the three-oared ships tech. The first turn the u/gs cost 20, 20, 20; then 78 (almost 400% more); then 228 (1100%!!!!). That's just plain crazy. Also, why such an increase for units that are already limited like Spartans etc.? Please, please change this.

jimmygeo
 

mind2020

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
18
Location
Slovenia
Pie, The progressive cost increase for some (too many) units is NOT working as described. I began upgrading biremes as soon as I got the three-oared ships tech. The first turn the u/gs cost 20, 20, 20; then 78 (almost 400% more); then 228 (1100%!!!!). That's just plain crazy. Also, why such an increase for units that are already limited like Spartans etc.? Please, please change this.

jimmygeo

Thats nothing I upgraded a bireme to a trireme with around 1500:gold: :lol:
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
922
Location
54°30′59″N, 128°35'59"W
I would only upgrade a unit, if it had lots of experience. Otherwise, they eventually get sold as mercenary fodder and balance my economy. Slaves have also been sold to make improvements
 

Thorgal

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
10
Maybe the court could use some columns at the sides without statues and i would favour a building after the second "entrance" instead of the big columns. Not only for historical reasons, but also for a completed look of the model.
 

Omnax

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
4
Hi Pie,

I have to say I admire your job on this mod, and I do enjoy it very much. It is really great and I have wanted to get a MP game going with one of my friends.

However, very soon we have got plenty of OOS problems, which could be solved by reconnecting but they were happening every few turns, so we decided to not continue with our MP game, as it got very annoying.

Are there any issues, which you are aware of? Or is there going to be any fix to make MP more stable? Maybe, some different settings, or certain thing causing so we can try to avoid it?
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Messages
922
Location
54°30′59″N, 128°35'59"W
Maybe the court could use some columns at the sides without statues and i would favour a building after the second "entrance" instead of the big columns. Not only for historical reasons, but also for a completed look of the model.
Yeah I'll get it done. thanks
 

Panzerlion

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
14
Hi it pains me to say this but I have to add to some of the other comments about the numbers of disasters, as with all the latest patches etc, it seems to me to be far to frequent. I am not aware historical of several life extinction events happening over a a couple of thousands years all in the same part of the earth. Sorry guys but a bit over the top. Also how about a few extra positive random events as these happen little or nothing. On a final not I love this game so don't mean to sound critical. Just remembered, still far too many stacks of doom, with me waiting several minutes, whilst about 50 enemy units attack one of my cities- Nigel
 

pie_at

PAE-Let's play ancient
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
1,771
Location
Austria
Hi guys,
I am slowed down by RL, so please be patient in getting a new patch...

Yes, the disasters will be reduced. they should already be in the 2nd patch.

About events: this is an issue, that gets updated and extended by Thorgal.
So Thorgal, you've heard it: more positive events ;)

but because of reducing natural disasters and increasing positive things, I have to check if both is balanced!

I don't know how to avoid stacks of doom. If increasing costs doesn't really work, I will have to set a limited number of buildable units. It's a pity that I can't set it depending on world size. it's a fixed number. So, I have no idea if this is desired by you players and if so, which limit shall be given to which unit....

About MP: yes, I do my best to solve OOS errors. In my last test, I was able to reach the Tech of Siege Units without a OOS. Omnax, try to play without "Random Events". This is connected with natural disasters too.
 

Panzerlion

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
14
Re stacks of doom I suppose when u talk about costs have you factored in on going maintenance costs? All I would add is I have left the computer amd made coffee etc and come back 10 mins later to find an attack still taking place. We need less units
 

Tschuggi

SNAFU
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
493
Location
Teutonia
Re stacks of doom I suppose when u talk about costs have you factored in on going maintenance costs? All I would add is I have left the computer amd made coffee etc and come back 10 mins later to find an attack still taking place. We need less units

I second that (what surprise...:lol:) and, if you haven't already done so, enable quick attack and defense and stack attack in game options!
 

Keinpferd

King
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
611
Location
Berlin
That's a never ending discussion. I'm already happy, we're past the days of 130 units sized stacks:crazyeye:. Maybe some highly specialized and "elite" sorts of units need to be "channeled" more through buildings like the Military Academy or the Heroic Epic, so they don't come out in such great numbers? Other than that, a combination of three ways of stack limitation – upkeep, building cost increase and fixed hardcap – is already in use…

I was always dreaming of a connection of food and the number of units as a regulative, but according to Pie (and common sense, I guess), all ideas in that direction seem to lead into something SDK depending. Other games have tried to focus on wars being carried out as much on food as on weapons. Logistics have decided many wars no less decisively than strategy and tactics. The basic thought there was the idea, that military units eat food locally in the area that they're operating in. Transferred to PAE, a food dependency of an army would result in smaller stacks.

I know little, whether something like that has been tried in other mods without the SDK.
 

Yerand

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Paris
Here is some thoughts about limiting the stacks of doom, I am no moder so I don't know if they can work :

- Huge increase of unit cost per turn and adding buildings that give free units
- Unit consume resources
- Unit consume a special logistic resource representing the food and equipment produced by a building that consume food, need strategic resources... I like this idea that enable logistical diplomacy
- Attrition rules : ie unit suffer health penalties when stacked
 

pie_at

PAE-Let's play ancient
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
1,771
Location
Austria
- huge increase of unit cost: can be done. eg, 1 or 2 gold per strong unit. but is everyone of us able to get a strong economy to pay all units? does a weak (handicapped) AI?

- buildings that give free units (from costs): is not possible. only with civics

- unit consume resource: not possible

- a building that produces food... I am thinking of a possible way, if this feature gets to work.

- health penalty when stacked: is already a PAE feature.
1) more than 10 units on a plot, gets hurt while moving
2) you don't heal in enemy territory without supply wagon
 

Panzerlion

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
14
Another thought from my board wargaming days but how about a line of suppy back to a friendly city, no line of suppy, units are degraded and then eventually die. This would also bring the wider strategic element that warfare is more than just arriving on the battlefiled but requires logistical support - No doubt as a non computer modder this has beeen already discussed and discounted etc
 

Keinpferd

King
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
611
Location
Berlin
Supply lines discussed and discounted? Well, yes:yup:. So what, you're absolutly right about that, anyway. If Carthage and Rome needed to support armies on Sicily, a working supply line was crucial. As soon as it was cut off, a besieged army in a city on that island couldn't continue fighting. And that's exactly what happened in the First Punic War. When the Carthaginian fleet was defeated, they couldn't support their troops in Sicily anymore – because of an interrupted supply line.

I played board wargames, too, and I know, it's impossible to turn Civ IV into one. But in a mod, that emphasizes realism, some sort of supply mechanism would be nice. As all tactical elements in general! Tactics of board wargames were top of the list in the making Civ V for a reason. Tactics had been one of the things, that were missing most in Civ IV.

Two screenshots from the game Hegemony:


 
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