[BNW] Piety opener?

[ArnoldI]

Coming back to CiV after some years away and playing on Emperor difficulty. I want to try a religion-heavy game but after some tries with Boudicca I'm starting to question if there's any benefit to opening a game with Piety instead of Tradition or Liberty, which seem more consistent.

Is there any long-term use to Piety or should I just abandon it since I'm basically guaranteed to found a religion since I'm playing as the Celts?

 

[Nizef]

Coming back to CiV after some years away and playing on Emperor difficulty. I want to try a religion-heavy game but after some tries with Boudicca I'm starting to question if there's any benefit to opening a game with Piety instead of Tradition or Liberty, which seem more consistent.

Is there any long-term use to Piety or should I just abandon it since I'm basically guaranteed to found a religion since I'm playing as the Celts?

Hi there,
I´ll try to answer your question. First of all, Piety is a little more challenging than Tradition or Liberty. Even when you decide to go Piety, I would say that it many times makes more sense to take the Tradition opener before going Piety (for the border growth if nothing else). Anyway you will have to fit a Monument into your build order in your cities. You can also combine Liberty and Piety, which might make sense with the Celts (they are a civ you want to play wide/semiwide). But, if you have the time to invest, I am sure you will find a way to go Piety that works for you and you will enjoy it! The most obvious benefit of a religion is to help with the culture output of your empire through faith buildings (Cathedrals, Monestaries, Mosques and Pagodas) and through the Piety finisher (create Holy Sites). Later in the game, you obviously want to save your faith for Great People (mostly Artists, Writers and Musicians), assuming that you are aiming for a Culture Victory. In this case I would say that the Reformation Beliefs for you to consider are Sacred Sites and To the Glory of God. For a decent cultural game, you should aim for an output of about 75-150 faith per turn in the later stages of the game.

The basics of a Culture Victory (CV) are:
- secure a religion with one or several faith buildings
- get some of the midgame wonders (GlobeT, Sistine, Uffizi and/or Louvre) and fill them with Great People (remember to check the theming bonuses)
- beeline for Archeology and dig up as many Antiquity Sites as you can fit into your cities (Museums etc)
- beeline for Telecommunications and Internet (and Radar)
- if you need more culture to win, buy some Musicians for faith and get them into the borders of your competitiors.

There are many threads in this forum where Religion and/or Culture Victories are discussed. Just to give you one example of the most recent discussions, you could check out the thread Enjoyable Deity Games (Page 34 onwards, game reports on EDGE#121 with Ethiopia) and maybe you can pick up a hint or two. Anyway, I am sure that you will find playing for a CV with Piety very intresting!

I hope this helps.

 

[ArnoldI]

Hi there,
I´ll try to answer your question. First of all, Piety is a little more challenging than Tradition or Liberty. Even when you decide to go Piety, I would say that it many times makes more sense to take the Tradition opener before going Piety (for the border growth if nothing else). Anyway you will have to fit a Monument into your build order in your cities. You can also combine Liberty and Piety, which might make sense with the Celts (they are a civ you want to play wide/semiwide). But, if you have the time to invest, I am sure you will find a way to go Piety that works for you and you will enjoy it! The most obvious benefit of a religion is to help with the culture output of your empire through faith buildings (Cathedrals, Monestaries, Mosques and Pagodas) and through the Piety finisher (create Holy Sites). Later in the game, you obviously want to save your faith for Great People (mostly Artists, Writers and Musicians), assuming that you are aiming for a Culture Victory. In this case I would say that the Reformation Beliefs for you to consider are Sacred Sites and To the Glory of God. For a decent cultural game, you should aim for an output of about 75-150 faith per turn in the later stages of the game.

The basics of a Culture Victory (CV) are:
- secure a religion with one or several faith buildings
- get some of the midgame wonders (GlobeT, Sistine, Uffizi and/or Louvre) and fill them with Great People (remember to check the theming bonuses)
- beeline for Archeology and dig up as many Antiquity Sites as you can fit into your cities (Museums etc)
- beeline for Telecommunications and Internet (and Radar)
- if you need more culture to win, buy some Musicians for faith and get them into the borders of your competitiors.

There are many threads in this forum where Religion and/or Culture Victories are discussed. Just to give you one example of the most recent discussions, you could check out the thread Enjoyable Deity Games (Page 34 onwards, game reports on EDGE#121 with Ethiopia) and maybe you can pick up a hint or two. Anyway, I am sure that you will find playing for a CV with Piety very intresting!

I hope this helps.

Thanks, Nizef. I might try to tone the difficulty down a notch since I installed the Smart AI mod and the AI seems to be much more agressive. I have a habit of only getting the Social Policies if I go to the end of tree. Opening with Tradition and then going Piety seems to make more sense to keep the Policies coming in the early-game

 

[Shark Diver]

Hi there,
I´ll try to answer your question. First of all, Piety is a little more challenging than Tradition or Liberty. Even when you decide to go Piety, I would say that it many times makes more sense to take the Tradition opener before going Piety (for the border growth if nothing else). Anyway you will have to fit a Monument into your build order in your cities. You can also combine Liberty and Piety, which might make sense with the Celts (they are a civ you want to play wide/semiwide). But, if you have the time to invest, I am sure you will find a way to go Piety that works for you and you will enjoy it! The most obvious benefit of a religion is to help with the culture output of your empire through faith buildings (Cathedrals, Monestaries, Mosques and Pagodas) and through the Piety finisher (create Holy Sites). Later in the game, you obviously want to save your faith for Great People (mostly Artists, Writers and Musicians), assuming that you are aiming for a Culture Victory. In this case I would say that the Reformation Beliefs for you to consider are Sacred Sites and To the Glory of God. For a decent cultural game, you should aim for an output of about 75-150 faith per turn in the later stages of the game.

The basics of a Culture Victory (CV) are:
- secure a religion with one or several faith buildings
- get some of the midgame wonders (GlobeT, Sistine, Uffizi and/or Louvre) and fill them with Great People (remember to check the theming bonuses)
- beeline for Archeology and dig up as many Antiquity Sites as you can fit into your cities (Museums etc)
- beeline for Telecommunications and Internet (and Radar)
- if you need more culture to win, buy some Musicians for faith and get them into the borders of your competitiors.

There are many threads in this forum where Religion and/or Culture Victories are discussed. Just to give you one example of the most recent discussions, you could check out the thread Enjoyable Deity Games (Page 34 onwards, game reports on EDGE#121 with Ethiopia) and maybe you can pick up a hint or two. Anyway, I am sure that you will find playing for a CV with Piety very intresting!

I hope this helps.

This is a very accurate post.

I would say that it many times makes more sense to take the Tradition opener before going Piety (for the border growth if nothing else).

This point deserves emphasis. I open Tradition 99.9% of the time, even if I'm going Liberty. That early Culture and faster border growth is paramount for a good early game, where your destiny is carved out. It is a lot harder to lose after a strong early game that it is to win after a poor early game.

Going Tradition Opener, full Piety can be a winnable strategy if you have a strong religion. The Piety social policies really complement each other so getting through them ASAP is the key to this strategy. I don't think I'd go this route unless I have some sort of a Cultural bonus, like a Natural Wonder. If it's a Culture Wonder, that'll get you through the early policies that make religion strong. If it's a Faith Wonder, consider a Cultural pantheon to power you through Piety even faster. This last one has resulted in some very fast finish times as a Cultural beast and still a strong religion.

 

[Tiberiu]

Coming back to CiV after some years away and playing on Emperor difficulty. I want to try a religion-heavy game but after some tries with Boudicca I'm starting to question if there's any benefit to opening a game with Piety instead of Tradition or Liberty, which seem more consistent.
Is there any long-term use to Piety or should I just abandon it since I'm basically guaranteed to found a religion since I'm playing as the Celts?

You can try many unique things with the Celts.
To answer your question, Piety only has long term benefits since anything else is more useful in the short term. It's quite established that you have to work harder to make Piety work.

One of the things I would do as Celts is to take Honor. Taking Tradition Opener, first, is always good, then Taking Honor Opener will let you obtain both faith and culture when killing barbarians with your Pictish Warriors. If you get your Warrior upgraded from a ruin it will be very nice. Going full into the Honor tree works well with the Celts. In fact, thanks to their UA they are one of the most versatile civs, since they are almost certain to get a religion without paying opportunity costs like building early shrines or taking Piety, etc.

Pictish Warriors are amazing units, even stronger than a Hoplite when outside of friendly lands against all non-cavalry units. Having Pyramids wonder and Liberty worker policy allows them to pillage twice and still attack in the same turn. If you want to build the Pyramids you can do so relatively easy on Emperor if you don't let it wait for too long. Pictish warriors can theoretically heal twice and attack twice in the same turn. Best of all, they upgrade into Pikemen instead of Swordsmen despite being, If I am not mistaken, the only unique spearman without an anti-cavalry promotion. I would make a few of them before they go obsolete and nurture them all game long. if you get all the good promotions they're be killing machines in the Industrial Era (as Lancers, later Helicopters)