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Pikeman upgrade to Lancers?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Sharku, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Well, if we're talking about realism, I don't think the same guy who was the Pikeman is now a Lancer. He'd probably be retired or dead by that point.
     
  2. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    ^^Yup. Civilization is too long for one human..
     
  3. Depee

    Depee Chieftain

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    Take a look into a history book. Pikemen were created to fight the lancers. So they are not only two entirely different units but chronologically it was the other way.
     
  4. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    ... and they still can. You probably don't upgrade every single pikeman to a lancer because perhaps you don't have horses enough or you have very good promoted knights that you don't like to disband. So lancers and pikeman will co-exist :)

    Then of course, I do think it would have been better to have lancer as an upgrade for knights and let pikemen become musketman without the +50% vs horses ability (hmm, except for spain I guess).
     
  5. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Historically, since renaissance pikemen were still used in the tercio formations (not only in Spain) until bayonets of line infantry.

    In my opinion:
    knight -> lancer -> cavalry
    longsword -> musketman -> rifleman
    pikeman -> tercio (20 strenght) -> rifleman (all riflemen have Bayonet promotion regardless of their origin, +25% against cavalry)

    And Span could have something different and more useful than tercio. Firaxis already did similar thing with Landsknecht and Foreign Legion ;)
     
  6. 4N4C0ND4

    4N4C0ND4 King

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    Please DON'T.
    Another way to nerf the mounted units, no me gusta.
    What I don't like in current sate of CIV is that pre indus unit requiring ressources actually suck... How ironic lol
    Swords because of the wrong tech path.
    Horseman/knight because of pike spam...

    I've read thought the all thread. My biggest issue is that pikes are just too good in this current state. Good strenght, PERFECT tech path (on way to educiton AND the +food), AND on top of that a handy promotion.

    If you/firaxi wants pikes to me the main line unit, as it was historicaly it seems, lower the strenght and/or maybe the anti mounted bonus.

    Sorry for ranting but tired to go throught the whole medieval with 10 horses and 14 iron unsed because yet xbows and pikes are just much better...

    As far as the lancer is concerned, I am the only one that think their upgrade cost is a bit much? I guess the upgrade gold cost is generic, but some upgrades that are debatable (pikes > lancers, xbows > gattlings) should maybe gets cheaper since the upgrade has also huge downsides.
     
  7. Robbedem

    Robbedem Chieftain

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    Rise of nations used this order:
    Hoplites -> Phalanx -> Pikemen -> Elite Pikemen -> Fusiliers -> Anti-Tank Rifle -> Bazooka -> Anti-Tank Missile

    Change lancers to "Elite Pikemen" and add something to bridge the gap to anti-tank rifle (Fusiliers) and it's all fine. Also give anti-tank rifle and up a ranged attack. (anti-tank missile could be added as extra, but isn't necessary)
     

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