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pineappledan's Unit Tweaks

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    This mod is to test out two proposals for VP unit balance:
    1. the replacement of the spear line's anti-cavalry bonus with formation, giving a 3rd option for XP investment similar to the Swordsman's option of Cover, and giving them a secondary open terrain bonus, which is historically relevant and flavorful
    2. The alteration of the skrimisher unit line in order to focus on rapid deployment, high mobility and harrassment, by removing the movement penalties and reducing their ranged combat strength
    Code:
    Formation I & II:
    Bonus vs mounted increased to 33%
    Defense in Open terrain increased to 15%
    
    Spear/Melee unit line
    Anti-Cavalry promotion removed from Melee Spear line (only Naresuan's Elephant has it now)
    All Spearman/Pikeman/Tercio/fusilier get Formation I for free
    
    Skirmisher unit line
    Movement penalty does not affect CS/RCS, and is only applied to chariot units
    Movement penalty renamed to 'Beam Axle'
    Movement penalty no longer affects floodplains
    
    Chariots have 4 Moves and movement Penalty
    Skirmisher/Heavy Skirmisher/Cuirassier/Cavalry have 5 moves and no movement penalty
    Naga Malla has 3 moves and no movement penalty
    Light Tank has 4 moves and no movement penalty
    Helicopter has 5 moves and hover
    
    Skirmisher unit line's CS/RCS changed. Generally, CS is increased and RCS is greatly decreased
    skirmisher: 11 CS / 7 RCS
    horse archer: 12 CS / 9 RCS
    heavy skirmisher: 17 CS / 13 RCS
    camel archer: 19 CS / 16 RCS
    cuirassier: 26 CS / 20 RCS
    hussar: 28 CS / 21 RCS
    cavalry: 40 CS / 31 RCS
    berber cavalry: 42 CS / 34 RCS
    comanche rider: 41 CS / 35 RCS
    cossack: 44 CS / 37 RCS
    light tank: 58 CS / 58 RCS
    helicopter gunship: 70 CS / 70 RCS
    
    Mongolia:
    With the increased mobility of skirmisher units, worry has been expressed that +2 moves on Mongolia would exceed the ability of the AI.
     - Mongol Terror changed from +2 moves & ZOC to +1 Attack
    
    Chu Ko Nu:
    Increased RCS to 20 (same as base crossbowman)
    
    Tank:
    Has Armor Plating 1 for free
    
    Giant Death Robot:
    Has Armor Plating 1 for free
    Increased BaseLandAirDefense to 60
    New free promotion: Killing Machine
       +200% Attack
       Unit Heals Fully when killing a Unit
       Unit ignores Rivers
    
    Code:
    4UC compatibility:
    Carpentom: 5 Moves / 10 CS / 8 RCS -- Movement Penalty
    Pancerny: 5 Moves / 21 CS / 14 RCS
    Hashemite Raider: 4 Moves / 58 CS / 58 RCS
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    vyyt and Kim Dong Un like this.
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I'm going to try this, but one thing that struck me right off the bat. Why does the light tank only get 4 movement? I get that it loses the rough terrain penalty, but since I know verisimilitude is a big concern to you it seems weird that a tank is slower than Calvary.
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Because WWI light/medium tanks weren't fast. Whippets were the fastest tank of the war and had a top speed of 8mph (13kmph), a casual jog. a Renault FT had a top speed of 5.5 mph (9 kmph), a brisk walking pace.

    By WWII, tanks did get kinda fast, and an Abrams tank can move at 45 mph (72 kmph), but I think people forget how bad internal combustion engines were before the 60s.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Interested to hear someone's feedback on mongolia with my changes. As you say, it should be hard to kill these units -- in my own game I kept getting lightning bolted out of Fog of War -- but the low damage potential makes them a unit that doesn't die much, but doesn't kill much either. With Mongolia's +1 Move/+1 Attack change, they can get the damage high enough that these units can really murder people.
     
  6. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    I really like the new spear line. Especially going authority, it's sweet having options that are practical and straight to the point. It's nice to simply specialize formation II units for mounted and open terrain defense before iron comes online - (long)swords can then soak up ranged with cover II while my landshneckts pillage and attack cities via the drill line. Once they all merge in renaissance, I'm left with a diverse and versatile group of tercios at my disposal that are ready to be utilized in accordance with my needs.

    Regardless of how the skirmisher changes unfold, I'm probably going to stick with your spear changes.
     
  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I'd hoped VP wouldn't try so hard to justify this mod's existence.

    With the Skirmisher line being a complete atrocity now -- and with various amounts of feedback from playtesters -- I'm implementing a few tweaks and improvements.

    Keep in mind, these tweaks aren't meant to be a revelation, they're just supposed to make the skirmisher line a bit more different from archers while still being playable. I never promised anyone I would cure cancer with these changes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  8. General_Drax

    General_Drax Chieftain

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    I like the fine tuning coming from your mods.

    About spear line: vs specific civs (like Songhai) the nerf is really huge. I'd test more but a knight unit in open vs pikemen (not fortified) should at least take a lot of damage and not simply roll over it.

    Skirmishers are in a good shape right now.

    Thank you !
     
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  10. General_Drax

    General_Drax Chieftain

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    Ok. Maybe I had to factor other variants in that case like unit experience (i.e. fresh pikeman with veteran knight) and other bonus/malus (religion, anti-wormonger favor, etc).

    I'll take a closer look: 2% difference was not the culprit of defeat.
     
  11. KittyKat3120

    KittyKat3120 Chieftain

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    Urm... The units from your more UC mod doesn't get the promotions that were mentioned for me...
     
  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  13. KittyKat3120

    KittyKat3120 Chieftain

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    I tried doing the saving thing but it's still not working...

    All the units mentioned in the units file like netherland's unique pikeman not getting the formation promotion and poland pancery having it's stats changed
     
    pineappledan likes this.
  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  15. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    I'm 200 turns through a Mongolia (3/4UC) run (Emperor) with a couple notes. They are fun and very strong, but I don't think mounted ranged with logistics automatically makes you invincible. I still lost my fair share of units, and it took me almost 150 turns over the course of 3 wars to secure my first vassal. This is despite having the ridiculous synergy of Goddess of Protection and Fountain of Youth, on top of the bonus healing from my Khan. I had a wine monopoly that got online late because I rushed horses while being surrounded by several CS, but I pursued an opportunistic war(s) against a forward settling Germany that dragged out, causing me to miss early tributes. Each game is different and the various factors can play out in so many ways that I wouldn't say Temujin is on some God tier of his own. His momentum is no different than the same snowballs that you can build up with any other warmonger. Now that I've had my power spike online, a carpet of Black Tugs/Lancers and high leveled heavy skirmishers/Cuirassiers are in the midst of annexing CS and sweeping the 3 remaining civs on my continent - now the real fun begins.

    Your mounted ranged just play better than whatever has been going on with the default skirmisher line. They differentiate between normal archers, and they're useful and fun, which is most important. Yeah they might be superb in rough terrain, but it at least gives them a niche even if it's not thematic. You still need vision and proper support to take down enemies, and the reduced RCS requires you to still have ample siege for city captures. The +1 attack really lets you farm XP so you can get some juicy promotions; I specifically didn't give Parthian to any of my mounted ranged, so I could see how they functioned exclusively with 5 moves. Speaking of, the notes above say +1 attack and ignore ZoC, but there's been no ignore ZoC for my mounted ranged (Steppes promotion just states "+1 attack")... Even without it, they are beasts. Also, the option exists to still grant logistics, but I didn't see the result so I'm unaware if you can technically get your mounted ranged up to 3 attacks (obviously that would be too much).

    Lastly, I know this has nothing to do with units, but the UA's 250% heavy tribute yields on annexation is absolutely insane. I'd argue this is a way more overpowered part of Genghis' kit. I didn't get my first heavy tributes until Medieval / Renaissance , and with era scaling I'm getting food / gold / culture in the thousands. One annexation gave me 4000 food, so my capital grew a pop for like 5 turns straight. I don't have much experience playing this civ, but this seems a bit much.

    As of right now, I'm sticking with your tweaks for what seems like the foreseeable future. Keep up the good stuff!
     

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