Pitch Your Civilization Icon Idea

[PhoenicianGold]

Civilization VI's icon spread satisfies my OCD. Whereas V irritated me with how many crosses and eagles were flying around, VI has been actively avoiding including similar-looking icons. In fact, it seems to have taken a page out of Game of Thrones' book and has been emphasizing a lot of iconic flora and fauna, including the Scottish thistle, the Japanese cherry blossom, the Spanish bull, and the Aztec snake.

I see a lot of other threads which focus on other facets of civ design, but this topic rarely comes up. And yet so far it appears to be roughly as important in defining a civ as having a distinct leader and resonant uniques.

So, in this thread, the game is to propose the inclusion of a new civilization in upcoming VI expansions. But here are the rules:

1. You are only allowed to advocate for or criticize proposed civs based on what their icon could be.

2. If you can tie it into an argument for the icon itself, tangential evidence of any sort is allowed. But it doesn't matter how relevant the civ was, how long the empire lasted, how much it geographically overlaps with otehr civs, who the leader is, etc. At the end of the post, only the icon matters.

3. The trickier part. The icon has to be substantially different than every other icon in the game. As a general rule, anything featuring an eagle, cross, or sun (without anything else) can be promptly laughed at.

4. Nothing overly complicated. It still has to be a fairly simple, legible design. So don't just say "the whole coat of arms" and call it good.

5. Color palette doesn't matter, but if you have a particularly intriguing combination I guess it can help sell the idea.

I'll knock an easy one out as an example:

Burma would clearly get a peacock. Colors would be a deep blue and light gray, symbolizing the gray peacock which is the Burmese national bird and symbol of the Burmese royal family.

I'm mostly doing this to see what are the most distinct ideas everyone can come up with, completely separate from all the historical "oughts" we see thrown around. I'm also curious to see which lion civ wins out.

 

[luigilime]

i've always liked the idea of seeing italy with a mural crown as an icon, the mural crown is the symbol of the italian communal period, and i like the fact it emphasizes the city state past of italy,
as for colours i think a light green background is necessary, but i'm not sure of the second colour, maybe, white or beige or yellow, but i think even savoy blue wouldn't be bad

 

[gallowsCalibrator]

Byzantium is one I'm curious about in particular; Hungary's two-barred cross symbol is far too close to the emblem it had in five. A Chi Rho symbol like it had in four could work better, though it's still very... cross-y. And the two headed eagle would be very, uh, Russia-y. A Beta symbol, like on Palaiologos heraldry, would be suitably distinct, I think; though I'm not sure that's the best choice to represent the empire overall, either. As far as colors go, I was quite fond of their palette in five, though that'd be overlapping with Phoenicia quite a bit now. Perhaps a grey and a muted lavender of some kind?

Plus this is all, of course, assuming Byzantium isn't eventually just represented as a Roman leader. ^^;

Maya is another one I'm curious about; they had a very noisy, detailed logo in five; I imagine they'll go for something similar this time, not sure for what exactly though! I'm less familiar with them.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Maya is another one I'm curious about; they had a very noisy, detailed logo in five; I imagine they'll go for something similar this time, not sure for what exactly though! I'm less familiar with them.

The Maya will almost certainly have Kukulcan, the Feathered Serpent (Quetzalcoatl to the Aztecs). I expect it will be a design very similar to the Palenque city-state’s icon.

 

[gallowsCalibrator]

The Maya will almost certainly have Kukulcan, the Feathered Serpent (Quetzalcoatl to the Aztecs). I expect it will be a design very similar to the Palenque city-state’s icon.

Oh, duh! I totally forgot about Palenque. Yeah, that'd work! As for a color scheme, something like they had in five would likely be fine - maybe a turquoise and blueish grey or something along those lines?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

The Maya will almost certainly have Kukulcan, the Feathered Serpent (Quetzalcoatl to the Aztecs). I expect it will be a design very similar to the Palenque city-state’s icon.

I think they wouldn't have a serpent, if only to distinguish them from the Aztec symbol.

But since the Palenque symbol is a jaguar, I think they would more likely go with that instead?

 

[The Kingmaker]

Is that what that’s supposed to be? Well, fair enough. That symbol is what I’m expecting.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well we have yet to see a lion, and Ethiopia would be perfect similar to the Civ 5 design. I prefer it to the star.

 

[gallowsCalibrator]

Babylon is another one that could inherit its icon from the city-state version; its five icon would still work, too, but it's a competitor to get the lion along with Ethiopia n' such.

Incidentally, something related to this thread- would you change any of the icons in six as it stands? Personally I'd shift the Ottoman icon back to having the crescents in a triangle pattern, but off the top of my head that's it.

 

[Txomin]

I propose the ahau symbol (a rough example available on this page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajaw ) as the civ icon for the Maya as it represents two nuances of Maya history:
1. The word "ahau" (outdated spelling "ajaw") means "lord" and refers to the Maya city nobility as a whole, which are a crucial part of the Classical Maya period. The symbol directly references these nobles.
2. The icon would reference the Maya writing system which is a famous aspect of Maya culture.
With the decipherment of Maya writing being a pretty old accomplishment by now, it's surprising that an actual Maya writing logogram hasn't been used as their civ icon. It's a lot more specific than an animal icon or civ 5's very strange choice of a front view face (Maya art usually portrays individuals in profile not portrait).

Colors are hard to decide but I think perhaps red and grey, representing how Maya buildings were painted could work. Jade and grey could also work representing jade and flint which were important materials in Maya culture.

Of course I don't really expect a choice like this from firaxis it's too specific to actual Maya studies. Similar to the vague serpent for Aztecs, a jaguar head is way more likely

 

[The Kingmaker]

Babylon is another one that could inherit its icon from the city-state version; its five icon would still work, too, but it's a competitor to get the lion along with Ethiopia n' such.

Either Assyria or Babylon could use the lamassu.

 

[awesome]

Haida would probably get their red and white flag with the eagle and raven. Or, they could always just get a black and blue raven design, because black on the totem pole means power and blue means sky and water, and they'd definitely be a naval civ.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Haida would probably get their red and white flag with the eagle and raven. Or, they could always just get a black and blue raven design, because black on the totem pole means power and blue means sky and water, and they'd definitely be a naval civ.

First idea: too similar to Russia in design and Canada in color?

Second idea: too similar to the Cree?

I mean looking at the symbol, I really like the design. But I just don't see it as very likely when the Cree already got a raven (?) head.

This (and gallows rundown of Byzantine symbols) somewhat illustrates some of the hitches I observe with proposed civs. If we were getting a Pacific coast tribe, the raven is an obvious choice. And yet the Cree have already somewhat poached on that idea. Same with Byzantium and Hungary. If those civs were planned further down the line, why did the devs shut themselves out of that design space?

By contrast, there is one choice that strikes me as bizarrely unnecessary unless you look at it as a deliberate attempt at conserving design space. Why doesn't India have the wheel of Ashoka anymore? I will grant that it is somewhat similar to the Sumeria, Indonesia, and Macedon icons, but it's still clearly a wheel and not a sun and so the case against it isn't that strong. UNLESS you look at the Romani flag, and then you begin to wonder......

 

[gallowsCalibrator]

I think the Haida flag described- after looking it up- could reasonably be distinct enough from Russia if it was stylized a bit. They'd still have a lotta color overlap with Canada, though, like you mentioned. The devs did mention considering Haida as an addition for GS, if I recall correctly? They likely at least had something in mind in that case.

And that's an interesting point about the Romani flag! The colors on it are close to Cree's, though, but between the green, blue, and red on the flag, surely something can be worked out there.

On the topic of Byzantium again, I'm coming around to the beta symbol, personally, though colors are still up in the air. That or a chi rho would be acceptable, I think. ^^

 

[The Kingmaker]

I’m expecting the Chi-Rho.

 

[Sana Kan]

Maybe a sirrush for Babylon and a lamassu for Assyria?

I dunno, I've never liked Spain's bull too much, it reminded me more of ancient civs than modern ones...

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I think the Haida flag described- after looking it up- could reasonably be distinct enough from Russia if it was stylized a bit.

I'm surprised the Haida were considered for GS, tbf. Both before the Navajo/Shoshone and alongside the Maori who seemed like one of the first locks.

Idunno, I'm dubious that we will see the Haida. That Cree symbol just looks too easily confused for a totem bird at a glance. I say this as someone who, after getting my Navajo kicks and some atomic Caribbean music, would thoroughly welcome a totem pole civ.

I’m expecting the Chi-Rho.

I'm expecting the laurel.

But even admitting the Chi Rho to be a solid option, I will counterattack with the Vatican City State keys as occupying similar design space.

 

[gallowsCalibrator]

Haida would totally be cool! I'm having a hard time thinking of alternatives myself, too, though. Maybe if the flag was trimmed to just the two bird heads primarily? Would be fairly distinct from both Cree and Russia, I think.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a laurel either- though I'm still personally hoping for Byzantines as their own civ, heh. And good point on the keys! Not sure how likely we are to get Papal States or anything similar, but hey, it'd certainly be cool.~

 

[Basileus Rhomaion]

Excluding the fact that it's Byzantium that should have got the double-headed eagle instead of Russia, there are several historically sound designs that move past the atrocious icon they had in Civ V.

1) The official late-Byzantine imperial insignia. The colour pattern is mostly what one should consider for Byzantium. Grey, purple, black and white are all generally based on misconceptions of Byzantine/Roman vexillology. The pattern is distinct enough to make it recognizable, albeit it is in fact one of the least interesting designs.


2) The late-Byzantine personal crest of the Emperor of Constantinople. The crescent is a symbol that has always been closely associated with Constantinople as a residue from its days as (actual) Byzantium. As the legend goes, the Greek-city state of Byzantium defeated Philip's forces under a crescent and star, which was commemorated on coins and became the official symbol of the city. This particular design is also very reminiscent of the noble insignia of the family of Dalassenos, the maternal family line of Alexios Komnenos.

Spoiler :

3) The personal ensign of Isaac Komnenos of Cyprus. Same logic as above, albeit more explicitly tied with the symbol of Constantinople and a bit more specialized/less inclusive. An interesting historical factoid is that this is in fact the source of the symbol of the city of Portsmouth. Upon capturing Cyprus from renegade break-away governor Isaac Komnenos, Richard the Lionhearted offered the governor's noble ensign to the city of Portsmouth as a sign of gratitude, due to the city's contribution in ships and sailors for the expedition (which was ultimately for a Crusade).

Spoiler :

4) The classic Palaiologos noble ensign. Simple and recognizable, especially for people coming from other strategy games (EU4, CK2 etc). Also not as inclusive, but definitely more representative.



5) Pontic single-headed eagle, associated with the house of Mgeas Komnenos of the empire of Trebizond. A bit more distinct and fitting if the leader is in fact a Komnenos.

Spoiler :

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Excluding the fact that it's Byzantium that should have got the double-headed eagle instead of Russia, there are several historically sound designs that move past the atrocious icon they had in Civ V.

1) The official late-Byzantine imperial insignia. The colour pattern is mostly what one should consider for Byzantium. Grey, purple, black and white are all generally based on misconceptions of Byzantine/Roman vexillology. The pattern is distinct enough to make it recognizable, albeit it is in fact one of the least interesting designs.


2) The late-Byzantine personal crest of the Emperor of Constantinople. The crescent is a symbol that has always been closely associated with Constantinople as a residue from its days as (actual) Byzantium. As the legend goes, the Greek-city state of Byzantium defeated Philip's forces under a crescent and star, which was commemorated on coins and became the official symbol of the city. This particular design is also very reminiscent of the noble insignia of the family of Dalassenos, the maternal family line of Alexios Komnenos.

Spoiler :

3) The personal ensign of Isaac Komnenos of Cyprus. Same logic as above, albeit more explicitly tied with the symbol of Constantinople and a bit more specialized/less inclusive. An interesting historical factoid is that this is in fact the source of the symbol of the city of Portsmouth. Upon capturing Cyprus from renegade break-away governor Isaac Komnenos, Richard the Lionhearted offered the governor's noble ensign to the city of Portsmouth as a sign of gratitude, due to the city's contribution in ships and sailors for the expedition (which was ultimately for a Crusade).

Spoiler :

4) The classic Palaiologos noble ensign. Simple and recognizable, especially for people coming from other strategy games (EU4, CK2 etc). Also not as inclusive, but definitely more representative.



5) Pontic single-headed eagle, associated with the house of Mgeas Komnenos of the empire of Trebizond. A bit more distinct and fitting if the leader is in fact a Komnenos.

Spoiler :

I really hate to be thot because the historical investment in this post is commendable, but:

1. Georgia
2. Georgia
3. Mongolia
4. Georgia
5. Russia

Georgia really is a killjoy for a lot of Byzantine options.