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Placing New Cities

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Scorpionleader, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. Scorpionleader

    Scorpionleader Chieftain

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    I read Tabarnak's thread "4 City Tradition's Opening" where to put a second city, but sometimes I still take it on the jaw. I put the city in one place and it will be 10 turns to get an archer... great. Put down another city, and 20 turns for an archer... not bad, that's livable. Put down another city, and 40 turns for an archer. These examples aren't within the same game, but numbers I have actually seen. If I wait 40 turns for an archer, I'm finished.

    Is there something else to picking a city location? More than just putting it on a lux. Is there a hills to non-hills ratio? Something that might make it easier. I know I need food to grow, so just hills can't be the answer. I do try to look for next to river on a hill, but it seems every time I get that prime location, I end up on the wrong side of the river for defense. But that's another story altogether.
     
  2. Blicero

    Blicero Warlord

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    I think the more appropriate answer is that you need to invest some time understanding how the city screen works. This is the "engine room" of any strategy for any player at any level. Each icon in a tile determines how much :c5food:, :c5production:, or :c5gold: a city produces each turn. Add all the tiles up that a city uses to get the total base number for that city. Then modifiers are applied. This is all summarized on the left side of the city screen if you hover over the numbers. This is what I recommend you spending some time understanding.

    A more specific answer to your problem is that when you drop a city, it has one :c5citizen:, which means that city will immediately be working two tiles: its BASE tile (where you dropped the city) plus one other of your choice. Add up the :c5production: on those two tiles and divide the total number of :c5production: required for an archer by it and you get the number of turns till the archer is complete.

    The BASE tile has a certain amount of :c5food:, :c5production:, and :c5gold: for every tile on the map (even ice or pure desert). However, if you found a city on a hill (any hill) you get one additional hammer. And this is how it's possible to found a city and be able to kick an archer out in 10 turns immediately after being founded (but you also will need two hammers in the other movable tile). This is one of the two main reasons why it is usually a good (actually very good) idea to found cities on hills (the other is that it will have a stronger city defense / attack). But the decision to found or not to found on a hill really depends on what you will have available in all the surrounding tiles and what the "theme" of that city is anticipated to be. I would say 3 out of 4 times I am dropping on a hill.

    You might toggle the "Y" key to see the base yields on top of all tiles as you're trying to find a city spot.
     
  3. anthropophage

    anthropophage Warlord

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    Forty turns for an archer means your city only has one hammer. See if you can buy a tile that gets you the hammers you need from the second ring.
     
  4. Ra's Head

    Ra's Head Chieftain

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    Settling on a hill when possible gives an extra hammer to your base city tile so that can help. It seems you might not be aware that you can choose what tile to work in the city screen. Normally, the game defaults to a high food tile at first, but through the citizen management tab you can change it to a production tile. resources like stone or horses or deer can provide production in otherwise production weak areas so look for those too.
     
  5. Zaimejs

    Zaimejs Emperor

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    And even though the city starts slow, after it grows, those long build times drop rapidly. I usually build troops in my capital and build buildings in new cities. Buying a granary and allying with maritime states speeds this along.
     
  6. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    The main thing is that generally a newly founded city is NOT suitable to build its defense unit in Civ V. This is in sharp contrast with all previous versions of civ but it because hammer cost of ancient era units is much higher in Civ V to help prevent carpet of doom. It should normally be built by a city with more production (such as the capital). In fact I normally have the starting defense unit for the intended new city built before I buy or rush the settler.

    Instead have the newly built city slow build a cheap building. Production will improve as its culture expands and as you get a worker into the area.
     
  7. Scorpionleader

    Scorpionleader Chieftain

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    I haven't opened a city to do anything but use the queue to pop out units or buy land. I always figured I would mess up more than I helped by not knowing what I was doing in there.
     
  8. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Don't worry. City governor is so horrible, you can't do more damage than he does. :D
     
  9. EditorRex

    EditorRex Master of Allusion

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    Two things to add to what's already been said:

    WHY BUILD SLOWLY WHEN YOU CAN BUY NOW? It's often advantageous to purchase your archer, especially if you've got exp or morale bonuses in another city. Sometime you have a lot more gold to spare than you do hammers. Also, I often take a veteran defender out to a new city that might be more subject to barbs or an early backstab, letting the old city buy the new defender to stay there, where he probably won't be tested any time soon. Unlike earlier versions of Civ, your cities can defend themselves OK without any defensive garrison, so that's also an option and you don't necessarily have to freak out if you don't have anyone posted in a city temporarily. Since you're talking about archers, presumably you realize the advantage of putting a range unit as the garrison, so it can snipe opponents and build experience.

    CITY ON A HILL? I've routinely been avoiding building cities on a hill and I'm now thinking that's irrational, with one possible exception. My reasoning, of course, has been windmills, which are unavailable on hills. If it was just about the production lost, that would be a no-brainer -- the early, continuing and maintenance-free bonus for the hill can't be beat. But the bigger issue is the Specialist and help toward Great Engineers, which are often a big part of my strategy to dominate in key Wonders without investing many hammers. (I often build Petra in one turn with a GE, for example, though that's the one I pop with Liberty.)
     
  10. EditorRex

    EditorRex Master of Allusion

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    If you fiddle with it and find that your city governor was doing better, there's a Reset Tiles button.
     

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