I am not at all in favor of the hypothetical conspiracy angle, which is why I don't see this as a coup attempt
planned coup prevented in Germany
- Thread starter The_J
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Man, times like this I really miss the laugh react. How intentionally obtuse. It's the intent that gets me, you see.I am not at all in favor of the hypothetical conspiracy angle, which is why I don't see this as a coup attempt
I mean, it was supposed to be a "witty" remark :/
Surely a lot better than the usual strife.
Anyway, the "conspiracy" angle doesn't really fit the alternative suggested, which is that the german gov wanted to paint this with pr colors. Not the first time, nor the last - in fact pretty common practice=>not worth being called a conspiracy.
Surely a lot better than the usual strife.
Anyway, the "conspiracy" angle doesn't really fit the alternative suggested, which is that the german gov wanted to paint this with pr colors. Not the first time, nor the last - in fact pretty common practice=>not worth being called a conspiracy.
If you want to be witty, my best advice is be so with your own words, instead of doing what looks like twisting others
Of course, I'm not a super witty guy, so maybe I missed it. But it certainly read as "I know what conspiracy you're talking about and I'm going to intentionally use my own conspiracy that you weren't talking about". And this is barely a page after you tried something else that fell flat, so, y'know. Fun is fun and all, but if your wording isn't landing, get better wording. Comedy bread and butter stuff, this. I'm willing to give a lot of leeway (and this is a bad habit because I keep getting myself caught in tangents), but taking peoples' words and running with them - as you should already know - isn't something I'm fond of.
As for the conspiracy (to commit a coup) angle, I'd say it makes plenty sense. How much do you know about the far-right scene in Germany? Of course the government will use this as a PR exercise. The usual advice you tend to give in these scenarios is to not give them (the government) the ammunition, no?
To be honest, Gorbles, you are talking about something about as clear as that famous "Right-wing dictator meets with General Pinochet" remark 
In other words, I did not expect you to miss what I was saying, since it was pretty easy to get.
And you yourself stated you don't view this group as having been able to have a coup, so I don't see what your own issue is with others who also don't think they were able to have a coup.
In other words, I did not expect you to miss what I was saying, since it was pretty easy to get.
And you yourself stated you don't view this group as having been able to have a coup, so I don't see what your own issue is with others who also don't think they were able to have a coup.
Not what I said, again. You might have chosen a position from which there's no moving (
), but I simply haven't made my mind up yet. Got a bunch of stuff to read (some that'll need translating as it's in German) to have more of an opinion.Ok, so from your flexible position, you just don't like the position the group had no ability to succeed with a coup, but are ok with the position of the official german government that it was risking to have a coup*.Not what I said, again. You might have chosen a position from which there's no moving (
I thought I was the one supposed to be distanced from things and yet still post
*and please don't say that you aren't ok with it, because then it becomes impossible to discern what your issue is with us who state we aren't ok with it (remember: the box of 'tangents past' isn't supposed to be mentioned even if implicitly a factor) :/
Flexible? Merely pragmatic. If you have evidence that would convince me, you can provide it right? I'm happy to read it.
This is two things at once. Firstly, this is your stated position, not mine.
Secondly, as others have already said, a coup doesn't have to be successful to do damage. It doesn't even have to do physical damage to do damage. You're fixating too strongly on the "did / did not succeed" binary, imo.
I'm okay with it insofar it's a plausible thing that could well have happened, and I'm going to read up on it more when I can. In terms of face value, sure, I believe the words of the government. You're free not to, but that has consequences far beyond this topic to the extent it constitutes a pretty fundamental barrier to discussion on anything relating to Germany as a nation.
r16
not deity
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details ? They always make people shout irrelevant ...
say , these kids should be the ones if the Republic was replaced by some Ottoman Empire the Second . Details are important and ı have no clue on childrens' fashion in Britain to decide whether it is just normal or they are following the BoJo Hairdo with their fully British father . Except of course , they probably are not yet told that the only State contact the Ottoman Family ever gets for decades is actual pressure to get them to endorse some other lot . Like why should these kids be denied their right to become a Sultan or something if there is going to be a new Ottoman Empire ? You know , details . Which in this case involves Ihvan becoming an equal partner of New Turkey , the two declaring a new state , this new state somehow inheriting stuff and New Turkey given the boot . Of course New Turkey will say this is a lie ! Irrelevant ? Like how will we know whether they received weird requests to talk sense to people ?
details are important , real important before making some statement . ı really don't think some CFC member today threatened the Jewish bankers with a second Holocaust if they didn't pay up . Even if the 20% success rate in a rescue operation somehow made a weird connection in my pitiful mind . Unit 777 . Their wikipedia page of course lack some of the details like in the first case it was an actual ambush on misjudged assesment that Egyptians would bring their "NATO advisors" to Cyprus . The second involves American sabotage in timers and stuff due to displeasure about some failure of Cairo in delivery of stuff they had no power to deliver . Achille Lauro would have been such a surprise for US rescue teams but the aftermath would have been pointlessly bad for Egypt .
and if one is tempted to talk about Nazis and the head of the snake should be better crushed while the snake is still small , the narrative from Germany seems to be there are lunatics living in their self declared tiny little things that should be invaded or something . Like if Germany does not get its cheap oil and free gas because Scholz agreed to the Anglosaxon ambush of Russians in Ukraine on a condition that he would gladly stall Putin if his financial losses to accrue were to be amended , the German Army can invade ! ı don't know , someplace in Germany or something . These are mighty important things , you know , this attack on Capitalism and its sacred notions of ownership . Back in a day when the RAF was yet puny , they put forward a notion that they could firebomb the Black Forest and some Goverment Minister said no can do because it was private property . Details . They even bore me . ı will probably launch an irrelevant tirade into Tolkien telling lies about Angmar as well . Like who wants to face Angmar ? Even if ı had it destroyed 2 days ago through an alliance with Mordor . You know , the daily Civ III session ...
and the detail about the absolute need for the given narrative to be accepted and what has the discussion above somewhere been about ? Except whatever said is the true truth and so on ? Anyhow , let us have cats instead . It is the internet , man !
say , these kids should be the ones if the Republic was replaced by some Ottoman Empire the Second . Details are important and ı have no clue on childrens' fashion in Britain to decide whether it is just normal or they are following the BoJo Hairdo with their fully British father . Except of course , they probably are not yet told that the only State contact the Ottoman Family ever gets for decades is actual pressure to get them to endorse some other lot . Like why should these kids be denied their right to become a Sultan or something if there is going to be a new Ottoman Empire ? You know , details . Which in this case involves Ihvan becoming an equal partner of New Turkey , the two declaring a new state , this new state somehow inheriting stuff and New Turkey given the boot . Of course New Turkey will say this is a lie ! Irrelevant ? Like how will we know whether they received weird requests to talk sense to people ?
details are important , real important before making some statement . ı really don't think some CFC member today threatened the Jewish bankers with a second Holocaust if they didn't pay up . Even if the 20% success rate in a rescue operation somehow made a weird connection in my pitiful mind . Unit 777 . Their wikipedia page of course lack some of the details like in the first case it was an actual ambush on misjudged assesment that Egyptians would bring their "NATO advisors" to Cyprus . The second involves American sabotage in timers and stuff due to displeasure about some failure of Cairo in delivery of stuff they had no power to deliver . Achille Lauro would have been such a surprise for US rescue teams but the aftermath would have been pointlessly bad for Egypt .
and if one is tempted to talk about Nazis and the head of the snake should be better crushed while the snake is still small , the narrative from Germany seems to be there are lunatics living in their self declared tiny little things that should be invaded or something . Like if Germany does not get its cheap oil and free gas because Scholz agreed to the Anglosaxon ambush of Russians in Ukraine on a condition that he would gladly stall Putin if his financial losses to accrue were to be amended , the German Army can invade ! ı don't know , someplace in Germany or something . These are mighty important things , you know , this attack on Capitalism and its sacred notions of ownership . Back in a day when the RAF was yet puny , they put forward a notion that they could firebomb the Black Forest and some Goverment Minister said no can do because it was private property . Details . They even bore me . ı will probably launch an irrelevant tirade into Tolkien telling lies about Angmar as well . Like who wants to face Angmar ? Even if ı had it destroyed 2 days ago through an alliance with Mordor . You know , the daily Civ III session ...
and the detail about the absolute need for the given narrative to be accepted and what has the discussion above somewhere been about ? Except whatever said is the true truth and so on ? Anyhow , let us have cats instead . It is the internet , man !
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
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To be fair, coups in Germany newer succeed the first time round. Keep a lookout for the next election.
amadeus
Serenity now
Seems like a bit of a semantic nitpick to me: yes, I would say this is not an attempted coup because there was no attempt; however, there was a conspiracy to overthrow the elected government so the Germans should prosecute them for that.I am not at all in favor of the hypothetical conspiracy angle, which is why I don't see this as a coup attempt
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
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True. If history is anything to go buy a short time out is just what they need to get their act together, maybe put it all down in a book or something.
amadeus
Serenity now
People are referencing the Munich plot but no one ever seems to remember the Kapp putsch of 1920.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Should they? I finally spend some time looking at the news of the mysterious 25 people coup conspiracy and it does not look good. I bet that a court case will not get anywhere. This was a political show, and only in a thing done for show are all the media notified in advance to milk a narrative out of it.
What can they be convicted of? They're not even nazis, they're bloody monarchists. Treason for "not recognizing" the current government? But what actual laws they they disobeying? Is this some republican lese-majesté thing, they refused to ritually sacrifice to the office of the chancellor? Does the current german state want to go gown that route, imprison people if they dissent in thought and work even though they obey the law? Aren't we good liberals? In fact did the german reich imprision republicans just because they talked to each other of one day getting rid of the Keiser and vainly sought support from other republicans abroad?
My interpretation of this is that the sitting chancellor decided to put out a distraction for the public, a "support the regime" thing, and ordered the intelligence services to round up any inconsequential group they had been watching, which of course any country has plenty of. Got some circus out of it but the whole thing is ridiculous and not likely to be or any value as "morale booster". What can one expect from the current government? Merkel the indecisive was a genius by comparison.
As I discussed before, I think you are unrealistically expecting this to happen. Even if (which is a big if) some networks ever rediscover what Hitler said praising getting away with genocide, why expect the "west" to really care at all?
If they want to sell a war, most would probably focus on more recent stuff (the stan
), they just aren't as bothered with history.I mean, even if such could snowball (this was what the nazis modelled themselves after! etc), it would require more concurrent causes, much like Russia's past (Stalin etc) wouldn't itself be enough. I guess that even if the Mein Kampf passages were focused upon, it'd be in the aftermath of other causes, so secondary in that way...
btw, twc has a few nazis
@innonimatu , this might even be related to Poland's recent statements about organizing an international forum about german ww2 reparations (which is long overdue, by the way).
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Snowygerry
Deity
We still own a small piece of Germany, and of course we held a zone of occupation there for 50+ years, they were barely here for 5.
Wasn't worth the cost, glad we got rid of that.
No we consider WWI/II done, we won and that should be the end of that - what sort of "international" forum do you want ?
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A. I am not Poland.
B. Germany hasn't paid Greece any war reparations, nor returned the forced loan it took from (conquered by nazi Germany) Greece. We are talking about hundreds of billions of euros - Poland asks for more than 1 trillion euros.
Poland formally demands €1.3 trillion from Germany in WWII reparations
An official note will be handed to Germany's foreign minister in Warsaw on Tuesday.
www.euronews.com
Snowygerry
Deity
Should be a private "forum" then of a few nations that still care about old hat, not an international one..
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