Plantation Balance

[ElliotS]

Currently plantations kinda suck. There seems to be some consensus about this, but I'd like to have a full blown thread about it so everyone can be heard without side-tracking other threads. I'd like to see something buff them.

Maybe caravansary adds +1+1?

1 & seems pretty equal to the 1 from Forge for mines. Pastures also get 1 from Stables, Cathedrals buff farms like crazy (1 & but are hard to get.) and villages get +1/2 & from road/railroad city connections going over them.

Plantations meanwhile don't get buffed by anything unique, and have the worst yield types of anything as the game goes on.

So that's my opinion, but what do you guys think?

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Plantations seem pretty fine with their Monopoly Bonuses up until after the Renaissance, where everything else gets buffs but them.

I would rather the Grocer receive the buff. And than buff the Tech buffs on Chemistry (delay this one) and Plastics.

 

[tu_79]

A building after jungles can be chopped is fitting, but I wonder if Grocer is a little late.

 

[CrazyG]

Part of what makes the forge buffing mines so key is I'm going to build a forge anyways, its cheap, has strong yields with an arena and provides a great specialist.

People seem to agree that the loss of yields when you chop jungle for a plantation is annoying, so lets get a building available around that time. I think that means Grocer is too late. I would suggest getting 1 food from whatever building is chosen. Aqueduct already does so many things, so I don't think its right. Gardens and caravansary seem to be the best fits, I would vote garden if between those two (though gardens are pretty expensive). EDIT- just had a thought, what about the herbalist?

I think the plastics buff could come earlier, the chemistry buff is in a good spot, but make them both +2 gold. I think an extra food in conjunction with 2 gold later on will keep them actually competitive.

Maybe one day I'll actually chop bananas!

 

[tu_79]

Actually herbalist sounds good. It's fitting in most cases, where an herbalist may help with a plantation production. And, the reason you proposed, it cures the same problem herbalist is causing. Not chopping gives food, chopping exchanges food for other yield (probably gold).

 

[Legen]

Imperialism's Exploitation buffs them (+1 , +1 ) alongside farms. It would make sense if other buffs to farms also affected plantations (e.g. Fertilizer), perheaphs with a gold emphasis.

If a building is warranted to buff plantations, it makes sense for something alongside the market/caravansary/harbor line, as many plantation products were historically meant for export and needed to achieve economy of scale to be profitable.

Banana plantations really deserve a buff, as it's not worth chopping a jungle for it due to herbalism. For luxury plantations, I'm in line with Phantom, them only fall behind after Renaissance (less so with Imperialism).

 

[tu_79]

Imperialism's Exploitation buffs them (+1 , +1 ) alongside farms. It would make sense if other buffs to farms also affected plantations (e.g. Fertilizer), perheaphs with a gold emphasis.

If a building is warranted to buff plantations, it makes sense for something alongside the market/caravansary/harbor line, as many plantation products were historically meant for export and needed to achieve economy of scale to be profitable.

Banana plantations really deserve a buff, as it's not worth chopping a jungle for it due to herbalism. For luxury plantations, I'm in line with Phantom, them only fall behind after Renaissance (less so with Imperialism).

I only agree with the buff to plantation on bananas. Herbalist is perfectly fine for enhancing plantations (knowledge with herbs also helps with growing and preservation techniques). And I don't see that farms should be treated equally, cathedrals enhance just farms, for example.

 

[Starrynite120]

Herbalist sounds like a really good idea. It avoids any problems of a tile being worse after improvement. It also fits the theme of the building.

 

[Gazebo]

How about +1 food at Economics?

 

[phantomaxl1207]

So a buff on Herbalists to Plantations to make up for the Chopping.

A buff for Bananas w/ the Grocer.

Make the +1 Gold to Plantations from Techs to +2. Or add +1 Food @ Econ.

 

[peterw1987]

Any jungle/forest enhancing building is a good option to enhance plantation,too. So chopping a forest or jungle for plantation is not totally a loss.

Afaik, that will be herbalist(+1food), workshop(+1p), and university(+1 science)

 

[CrazyG]

So a buff on Herbalists to Plantations to make up for the Chopping.

A buff for Bananas w/ the Grocer.

Make the +1 Gold to Plantations from Techs to +2. Or add +1 Food @ Econ.

Sounds perfect to me

 

[peterw1987]

While we are at it, quarry also need some love. It doesnt scale after classical era. Although it has strong early start with +2 production and stone work giving another +2 production.

 

[ElliotS]

While we are at it, quarry also need some love. It doesnt scale after classical era. Although it has strong early start with +2 production and stone work giving another +2 production.

I agree. Especially because the Stoneworks is a terrible building that I rarely can justify even over food when I only have 1 stone or marble. Maybe you should make a thread to discuss it separately though, it's best to keep threads on point.

 

[IcyAngel]

While we are at it, quarry also need some love. It doesnt scale after classical era. Although it has strong early start with +2 production and stone work giving another +2 production.

You can replace them with GP improvements late game. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have resources with an early power spike.

 

[Owlbebach]

For luxury plantations - i'm not sure, but i totaly agree with bananas - i just almost never chop them, banana with jungle is better than with plantation maybe 80% of the time.

 

[CrazyG]

Should the herbalist now be available to build without a forest? Had a game today where two cities had wine plantations but no possible way to build a herbalist.

 

[ElliotS]

Should the herbalist now be available to build without a forest? Had a game today where two cities had wine plantations but no possible way to build a herbalist.

The reason we added the production to herbalist was to lessen the hurt from chopping forest/jungle, so I don't think so. That's just pure power-creep, though in a general sense rather than to any particular thing. (And small overall, but dangerous as it is.)

If you think that the wine plantations were too weak it sounds more like a wine issue or a plantation issue than a herbalist issue.

I'd advocate no change until I see a compelling math-based argument.

 

[tu_79]

Also, herbalist existed because there were forest to work on. Herbalist synergizes with plantations, but he can't live on plantations alone.
Gameplay wise, it enforces keeping some forests.

 

[bigcat88]

Will be good if city can build herbalist for plantations without forest.